"Oh my god. If you are a student at a high school that has any interest in engineering, the jobs there are more jobs than people available to take them."  -   Guest

Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. Welcome. Today, we have with us mister Jojo, who is a principal within New York State at a high school within New York State. How are you today, mister Jojo?

Doing well. How are you? I'm great. So on today's episode, we're going to talk about school shootings, what it's what from the perspective of a school principal and, STEM programs and what that means. Sounds good.

Ahora bien, señor Jojo, como trabaja en una preparatoria, quería preguntarle, ¿qué opina de los tiroteos escolares? Bueno, los tiroteos escolares son, ya sabe, incidentes muy trágicos, muy graves. Pero como director de una escuela urbana, es algo que me preocupa menos. ¿Por qué? ¿Sabe?

Well, you know, as you look at school shootings, there there have not been very many that have been conducted by black or brown students and black or brown schools. For the majority, Yeah. You'll see that they they predominantly happen in, you know, white suburban schools, white rural schools. But most of the perpetrators are not black and brown students. I I think there may have been one, maybe.

But it's not something that I go to work every day concerned with. My my mom is always worried about me with school shootings and stuff like that. And I'm like like, mom, remember the school I work in? It's it's not like white suburban middle class where, you know, kids are just holding a grudge. You know, our our kids are less likely to engage in something like that in a school building.

Hemos tenido incidentes en los que ha habido preocupación por la presencia de armas en el edificio. En general, se trata de una pistola de aire comprimido o de airsoft, pero los niños no tienen intención de usarla en nuestro edificio. Generalmente es algo que olvidan en su mochila o algo así. ¡Vaya! ¿Por qué cree que hay una diferencia tan grande entre, como usted dijo, su preocupación por los tiroteos escolares no es tan grande debido a que trabaja en una escuela mayoritariamente de color, en un entorno urbano?

Pero si estuvieras en un entorno suburbano, ¿crees que esa preocupación sería mucho mayor? Totalmente. Sabes, creo que hay un poco más de acceso a armas, honestamente, en los suburbios que en las escuelas urbanas. Creo que los niños que asisten a escuelas urbanas generalmente no asisten a la escuela para participar en esa actividad. Este suele ser su espacio más seguro al que tienen acceso, y realmente les gusta preservarlo.

You know, this is where they can come to get away from some of the things that are happening in their community or their house. You know, I grew up, you know, myself in an urban environment and and just remember school being a place, you know, you're fine school being a place where, you know, everyone felt safe as opposed to maybe walking down the street after you got out of school. And most of the time, kids that are that are really violent in urban settings kinda stop going to school around, you know, ninth grade when they can. And so if I was in a suburban, but, yeah, if I was at a white middle class, upper middle class suburban school, you know, I think there are some elements to that where kids, you know, I'm not saying kids aren't bullied in urban schools in black and brown settings. They are.

I've investigated a lot of them. But students in those schools seem to be feel ostracized more. And, generally, like, the way they look, their skin color, their financial background are generally more accepted in in all places. Right? Like, everywhere they're accepted, they feel accepted.

And then they go to school, and they feel like the outsider. They feel like they don't have friends. They feel like nobody accepts them. And then they start to spin those wheels, around why and get angry and then looks to target people. That's my perception of it.

Whereas most, you know, students that are in urban school feel more accepted at their schools than they than they do potentially even at home sometimes with the Oh, wow. I work with and talk to. Well, that's interesting. And that's a perspective that I actually hadn't really heard before, you know, before, speaking with you, and I'm sure that it it might be a surprise to some listeners. Some of the other listeners probably like, yeah.

We know that already. You know, those who who work in places like you probably already know that. But I think many of the listeners, in here and maybe Canada, where school shootings are not as prevalent as they are here, might might not understand that. And so thank you for for explaining that. And now Absolutely.

Para los oyentes, dígannos cuánto tiempo llevan trabajando en el campo de la educación. ¡Guau! Ya casi diecinueve años. Este año 2019 es mi fin. Empecé nada más terminar la universidad.

Había estado pensando en ir a la facultad de derecho. Eso era lo que había planeado hacer. ¡Guau! Volví a casa, me aceptaron en una facultad de derecho local y estuve recorriendo la facultad. Y, ¿sabes?, por aquel entonces trabajaba en un restaurante.

I love serving. It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever done is is working in a restaurant. But either way, the the law professor giving me a tour said, you know, if you come to school here, you're gonna have to quit your job. And I was like, well, I don't have money otherwise. Like, I need to work.

O sea, no vengo por dinero. Mi familia es pobre. Y él me dijo: «Bueno, puedes seguir trabajando allí, pero si descubrimos que estás trabajando, te echaremos de la facultad de derecho, porque no hay manera de que tengas tiempo suficiente para hacer todo el trabajo que necesitamos y tener un trabajo». Y en ese momento, pensé: «Quizás debería replantearme mi vida». ¡Vaya!

So They really I didn't know that they they they said that to you back then. Yeah. They sure did. And this is, 02/2004. So I decided to apply for a couple jobs at a school district, fell in love with working with, freshman academy at an urban high school, and decided I was gonna go back and become dual certified in special education and social studies.

Became special education teacher, baseball coach for a long time, and then wanted to expand my influence, so went into educational leadership. Okay. Well, thank you for letting us know what your background is. I think sometimes that matters when we're listening to people to understand where they're coming from. So you're not some person that just started working in education five days ago.

Tienes mucha experiencia, así que lo que dices proviene de tu conocimiento y experiencia. Me gusta hablar con personas que llevan tiempo en el sector porque han podido ver la diferencia en los últimos veinte años, dónde está la educación ahora, dónde estaba, su progreso y, bueno, su digresión en muchos aspectos. Ahora me gustaría pasar a hablar de STEM. Ahora eres director de una escuela secundaria con un programa STEM. Quiero que expliques qué significa STEM para quienes están fuera del estado de Nueva York y quizás no lo sepan.

Sure. So, STEM stands for science, technology, engineering, and math. Our school does have a couple of different, communities where students can learn college and career based skills. One of them has to do with the arts or else we would have been a STEAM Academy. A lot of times, the arts fits right in the middle of STEM.

You know, the design of things, the the creativity that comes with with STEM really lends itself to the arts. But they will be somebody that we partner with on a lot of projects. But, yes, STEM is science, technology, engineering, and math. Okay. And so you wanted to talk about STEM because you you think that it's very important.

¿Por qué es importante? Las ciencias, la tecnología, la ingeniería y las matemáticas (STEM) están presentes en todo. Contamos con una gran variedad de comunidades y socios, incluyendo socios globales, que se esfuerzan por acercar a los estudiantes a las carreras y trayectorias STEM. No se trata solo de la universidad. Muchos de nuestros socios con los que trabajamos... lo siento.

Could you repeat that again? It's STEM is not just for kids that are going to work. Could you say it again? It's not just college? It's not just for college.

I that's something that I think is so extremely important for people to understand because we keep shoving down our kids' throat. College, college, college, and college can be good, but it's not for everybody, and there are other forms of education that you can pursue. But I digress. Go ahead. No.

Absolutely. And that's that's one of the biggest things for me. You know, I'm I'm one of the only high school graduates in my entire extended family. Oh, wow. My sister dropped out.

My dad went to one day of high school. Wow. My grandmother's claim to fame was that she had two degrees because she did my mother's work for her junior and senior year. So I I understand how challenging, you know, standardized education can be for some people. Yeah.

Pero creo que es muy importante ayudar a los jóvenes a terminar al menos la preparatoria y a tener un camino hacia una carrera profesional. ¿Cierto? Algunos de nuestros socios tienen equipos de ingeniería. Y obviamente, para eso, tienes que ir a la universidad por un tiempo.

Pero también tienen gente que simplemente necesitan que sea útil, ¿verdad? Y van a ser maquinistas. Es como... crecimos con la mano de obra obrera y la de oficinista, ¿verdad?

And blue collar were mechanics, and they got greasy, and white collar worked in offices. Mhmm. But right now in STEM careers, they're really pushing this new color workforce, it's called. So it could be somebody that wears a white dress shirt but is also a machinist because they're not greasy. They're not really digging into oils and stuff like that.

They might be replacing, you know, a gear that's that's not super greasy. It's it's kind of a cleaner aspect of working with your hands, you know, when you talk about creating, you know, wafers. Okay? So the microprocessor chips that are in all of our cell phones, our cars, things of that nature. That would be considered a new collar workforce where you're gonna be working on a machine that carries these huge wafer disks that are like $200,000 a disk.

Wow. And then moves it around this factory and infuses different gases in inside of this control chamber, to be able to process what a company is looking that microprocessor to process, whether it be a car or your iPhone. I think there's I think there's, like, 96 of them in an iPhone. Okay. So Wow.

It's amazing how many of them are used. And not everybody is on the biochemical engineering side of that production. There's a lot of people that are on the ground making sure that, you know, the machines are running across the ceiling well, that the wafers are getting picked up at the right time, that they're in the machines the the correct amount of time, based on what the engineers have designed. So a lot of the companies are telling me that they'd rather just train kids right out of high school than rather than have them go to college. Really?

Which is really, really interesting. You know? Is that a when they development? I would say definitely. But I think it also has to do with the fact that a lot of the companies wanna tap into the the students right out of high school so that they can see themselves progressing in that career pathway Mhmm.

To provide them the the internal mentoring and supports so that they get to the end goal of potentially being an executive. You know, but they they really do want people to learn the whole gamut of the operations. And you can start, you know, some some of the companies have said, do you know any kids that can work on lawn mowers? Right? Like, maybe maybe somebody that's really good with lawn mowers or power scooters or stuff like that.

Y esos son los niños que quieren porque son muy creativos y tienen mucho conocimiento sin necesidad de leer un manual. ¿Verdad? Simplemente saben qué hacer. Ahora bien, para los adolescentes que nos escuchan ahora mismo, ya lo oirán. Lo oirán.

There is hope for you. You there are ways that you can get into, technology fields without going to college and make a lot of money because there there that's one thing. I know you see it all the time, and I see it when I go to high schools and I deal with high school students and do workshops. How much money we gonna make? They wanna know about the money aspect.

And I know that there is a lot of money in engineering. I know that there's different kinds of of engineering, and I know engineering is I'm using as a general term, and I know that that's not the only position within the STEM field. I think it's the easiest one to talk about, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. But what do you think the outlook is for for the teenagers that are listening right now who are thinking about getting into engineering? How would you say the overall outlook?

Acabas de hablar un poco sobre ello, pero, en general, ¿cómo era el panorama general para los ingenieros? Para alguien que quiere dedicarse a la ingeniería hoy en día. ¡Dios mío! Si eres estudiante de secundaria y te interesa la ingeniería, hay más puestos de trabajo que personas disponibles.

I'm sorry. Could you repeat that part again? There there are more engineering jobs in The United States available, than there are kids in engineering programs at colleges. A lot of times, companies are actually going overseas to India and China and doing a couple of your contracts with with engineering students there to bring them into The United States to fulfill some of the jobs. Yeah.

They're very high paying, you know, anywhere from a starting salary recently of of 90 to $220,000 depending on your expertise with with engineering field. But, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind going back to talking to some of those teens that maybe have been messing up so far and give them some other STEM creative pathways that Absolutely. Go ahead. So one of my favorite, STEM initiatives is via the Fab Foundation, and they are really, really centered on creativity and maker spaces. And so at our school, we have a maker space.

A lot of people don't really know what that entails. It's kinda like this cool word to use. But, within our maker space, we have vinyl cutters, three d printers, CNC routers, laser cutters, t shirt presses, button makers That is so cool. Sublimation printers, embroidery. And so kids can really or students or anyone, and we've had community nights where we've invited parents in to kind of work on some of these machines.

But we've had students create entire clothing lines based on the computer designs that they do, and then they use the sublimation printer, and then they make sweatshirts, and they have them embroidered, and they sell them for $80. There is so much money in creating on demand products, that I don't really think people understand. Like, you can make freeze pop containers or holders that have somebody's name on them and sell them for $15. Can I come use your maker space? Yeah.

You can come in and you can come in and work with it. Next time you're in, I'll show it to you. It's one of my most it it's like my happy place in the building. Like, if I need to go see some cool things happening, I'll just go to that classroom, spend twenty minutes in there. You might see somebody, you know, soldering, electrical to create, or to fix, like, an RC car, or somebody creating their logo for design.

But, you know, anytime youth sports are crazy in America, probably in Canada as well. But so anytime you go to, like, a baseball tournament or a hockey tournament, they're selling these cheap dry fit t shirts Yeah. With a logo on it. $30. Yep.

$30. The it costs them, like, $6 to make. The vinyl is, like, 25¢. It's ultra cheap, and there's a huge profit. And so, you know, I know people that go to hockey tournaments and make $3,000 a day selling T shirts and sweatshirts.

To me, this sounds like the for the teenagers and just young adults listening, it's it's a business that is fairly easy to get into. And and I know this just beyond this conversation that, you know, it's something that some of you might consider even if it's a side hustle. There are ways to do it. I'm a big fan of pushing entrepreneurialism, so you will hear that from me. And I think entrepreneurialism is not for everyone, but I think there's a lot of of students who get into especially STEM, you know, STEM areas, in areas of engineering that could probably be take what they know and be a great entrepreneur with it.

And they just that's not presented to to that's not presented to them all the time, especially in urban settings. And, you know, I would love to see more of that. Now how how would you suggest I was gonna ask you about digital fabrication, but you kinda talked about that already. How would you suggest some of these youth who are not in New York State that don't have a system like yours, and they might not even have a makerspace in their school. What would you say to those students who have a they're in a high school where STEM is not a focus, but they are really truly a STEM student.

What can they do? So there's a couple options. I mean, you can Google the Fab Foundation just to start. Okay? They have, I think, over 7,000 fab labs spread throughout the world.

Oh, wow. And so you can just Google Fab Foundation, and you'll have access in a lot of countries, to a digital fabrication lab that is supported by the Fab Foundation. So I know there's a lot at, libraries and museums throughout Canada, in Europe. That's kinda where their hub is based. Oh, okay.

You know, for example, Pittsburgh has, like, the Carnegie Science Center, and they have, I think, like, a couple mobile fab labs, but they also do summer STEM camps. And so if you looked up, fab foundation, that would be where I would start, just if you're interested in the digital fabrication, you know, getting into those types of things. But, you know, I think there are there are so many museums and and libraries and and local places that actually offer maker spaces and creative labs. I know that we've opened up one or two locally in our area. They're expensive to get started, but a lot of times, you know, there's some really, there's some companies that donate a lot of money to urban locations to have them create makerspaces and fablets.

Interrumpirte un segundo. Como nuestra audiencia es nacional, estamos en el ámbito internacional, ya que incluimos a Canadá. "Makerspace" es una palabra que se usa más comúnmente ahora mismo. Sé que la conozco. Pero ¿qué otros términos pueden buscar que no se llamen "makerspace"?

What are some others terms that they could search for if they're looking for a place like that? I mean, that's that's a big one, but I would also go with, you know, Fab Foundation. EduFab is another one. See if your Oh. Your local schools have a partnership with EduFab.

He trabajado mucho con una mujer que dirige EduFab y es socia de la Fundación Fab. Crean los planes de clase y las actividades creativas para que las escuelas las usen en sus espacios de creación. También se podría escribir algo como "fabricación digital". Es interesante. Tengo un exalumno, exjugador de béisbol, que se dedicó a la soldadura y terminó trabajando en una planta de fabricación digital como maestro soldador para algunas de las cosas que no se pueden hacer con otras máquinas.

Bueno, todavía hace falta que se hagan cosas con la mano. Ya sabes, mientras se fabrica. Es un colectivo muy interesante. Una de las mejores cosas de la fabricación digital, los espacios de creación y la fundación fab es que están muy en sintonía con la colaboración internacional.

So, you know, if you start to get into those those fields, then they do a lot of, like, I think it's called open source where everyone can have access to some of the programs that you're using. So if you're looking at creating, you know, a design, you can kinda Google and look up those designs and then say, you know, you've already made that. You would generally share that with me for free. It's a really, really collaborative space. Another key term, open source.

Yep. And and so some of the, you know, the things that we've looked at doing is collaborating with schools in, you know, Malaysia and France through some of the partnerships that I've had with Fab Foundation and met international conferences, to work across time zones on similar projects. You know? And I think one of the areas that you'll see making in the Fab Foundation and just digital fabrication in general is is providing really, really affordable access to technological resources across the world. One of the the initiatives the Fab Foundation had is they created a a floating makerspace, in Senate down the Amazon River to work with local indigenous tribes.

Oh, wow. To try to create solutions for even helping them create cleaner water. Wow. That's awesome. Or easier ways to fabricate their homes.

It's really, really cool. And so, you know and and part of me feels a little bit uncomfortable with that. Like, I really don't wouldn't wanna mess too much with, like, an indigenous tribe in along the Amazon River because, like, you know, that's how they do business. Yeah. But at the same time, if you can provide them with something that's gonna allow them to have a little bit of more access to this, which helps their lives Yeah.

Without having to, you know, get a McDonald's also there. Right. No. Right. Like that.

Sabes, intentan no cambiar su estructura. Sí. Sí. Así que, sabes, me emociona ver cómo será el futuro de la fabricación y creación digital para la próxima generación de estudiantes. Eso también me entusiasma.

I mean, digital digital fabrication and everything tech, I would say. I I generalize STEM is everything tech. That's that's Fatima verbiage for it. I see that as as our our future even before talking to you. I'm just like, well, that's our future.

That's where we're headed. And so why not get into a field, where, you know, that's where everything's gonna be. And the thing is is that I also want the listeners to to understand and, you can piggyback on this or correct me, but, within the the all the tech fields, there's not just tech positions. There's everything is not gonna be able to be automated. AI has taken over a lot of things.

Let's be real about that. But AI can't take over everything. There's some human touch that's still gonna be necessary. So there might be someone necessary to take notes. There there's still gonna be need for administrative assistance.

There's still gonna be need for innovative ideas even if you're not the one to implement them. We might need your brain to help us come up with the next innovative idea. There are many, many, many different positions within the field that aren't just tech oriented that might be necessary. Correct? Absolutely.

And I'm glad you brought up AI because, you know, some of the local partners that I have are also computer programmers and coders. And that's one of the most recent STEM courses that we've, you know, kind of grown here is is is coding, computer programming, computer science. And, you know, when when AI dropped one of my partners, they were real scared because, you know, you can go into chat GPT or other AI programs and literally type exactly what you want for the code to be, what you're looking for, and then it creates that code pretty instantaneously for you. So, you know, I I think that we're right at the tip of the AI iceberg. I think it's gonna be as I I don't know if I wanna use the word disruptive, but I feel like it is gonna be as disruptive to our lives as electricity was.

Yeah. I I agree to that. I could see where you're coming from with that. And and I mean disruptive, like, you know, back in the day before electricity, you couldn't really work at night. Right?

Hay ciertas horas de empleabilidad, y eso suena genial, ¿verdad? O sea, suena genial tener todo prácticamente paralizado en cierto momento. Pero espero que podamos aprovechar la IA y crear una sociedad que sea mejor para nosotros, en lugar de, ya sabes, lo contrario, como cuando ves Terminator. Sí.

Creo que la clave de todo esto es el equilibrio. Se trata simplemente de asegurarnos de que estemos en equilibrio, porque creo que puede ser muy útil. Utilizo la IA en algunas cosas, pero no en todo. Si usamos la IA para reemplazar nuestros cerebros, eso es extremo, es desequilibrio y es malo. Si usamos la IA para ayudar a nuestros cerebros, es un equilibrio perfecto.

And we just gotta make sure we stay there. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people that don't because they like to go to extremes and just be silly. But, but I'm hoping that it it I mean, it does really I I couldn't do all that I'm doing if I didn't use AI for some things because it cuts down on me taking an entire date to create something. I could take what what what AI gives me, and then I could tweak it and make it my own. I don't just take AI stuff anyway.

Modifico todo lo que hacen para, ya sabes, mi propio beneficio. Para terminar, me gustaría que hablaras con los adultos que trabajan con jóvenes, con intereses o talentos en las áreas de ciencia, tecnología, ingeniería y matemáticas (STEM). ¿Qué les dirías? Les diría que sigan impulsándolos. Que sigan trabajando con esos estudiantes.

Continue to expose them to things that they didn't even know were possible within the careers of STEM. And I would even like to say to to people that work with kids who they don't think are interested in STEM or don't have a passion in STEM, that if you expose those students to to the the wide variety of activities and educational experiences and companies that are STEM based, you may open up their eyes to something they didn't even realize existed and a passion in them that they can really see themselves doing moving forward. I think that's been some of the biggest entrepreneurs for me are bringing kids on a field trip and their their teachers like, oh, that kid shouldn't go. They have a a d minus in this math class and that's STEM based. And then I bring them on a field trip and they come back and they're like an a plus kid because now they see where they wanna go.

Mhmm. And they see how how much better their life can be if they actually work hard, in that STEM based career. I I think that's been some of the most eye opening. I think the kids that are already motivated, just keep pushing them, keep exposing them. And the kids that aren't, do the same thing because they they might not even know what exists for them.

No. You're absolutely right. I will tell you. I I've always been a crafty person and as you know, and and I'm not sure if the listeners know, but I'm also a professional seamstress. I make and design wedding gowns, and I have a separate business for that.

I would not have gotten into I don't know that I would've would've gotten into wedding gowns the way I have if I hadn't first worked at a bridal shop, selling them at first before becoming before managing the alteration department. And I have a strong passion. I love working with brides. I love working with wedding gowns. I don't know that I would have known that if I hadn't been exposed to it.

Tenía experiencia en gestión de tiendas minoristas, pero antes de empezar a trabajar en David's Bridal, donde estuve diez años. Antes de eso, no sabía que me apasionaban tanto los vestidos de novia en la industria nupcial hasta que me dediqué a ello y me vi en una posición donde tuve que trabajar. Entonces me di cuenta de que me apasionaba. Y no creo que sea algo exclusivo de mí. Era adulta en ese momento, pero es algo humano, como acabas de decir.

And and for some of, for some of our teens, we we need to just let them experience some things, and that's how they'll discover what they do and don't like. Sometimes we present things. Presenting it in the classroom doesn't mean a damn thing until they're actually putting their hands to it and experiencing it, or at least maybe virtually experiencing it or, you know, going through some kind of experience that'll show them what this particular thing is like, and then it can open up the doors. It's like, I didn't realize how much I love peaches until I tasted one. Yeah.

Absolutely. The same goes for, I think, some of my biggest learning experiences in my life were experience is going after something that I thought I'd really love and be passionate about, and then realizing it was absolutely not for me. Yep. That's so true. And that and I thankfully learned a lot of those lessons before, you know, I was done with my education, before I was locked into a career, and was able to find something that I'm super passionate about, something that I really enjoy, something that doesn't feel like a job every day.

It feels like, You know, it's exciting. It's it's cool. It's fun. It's new every day. So, you know, I think exposure to things helps kids see what they wanna do, but more importantly, what they definitely don't wanna do.

Yeah. No. I completely agree with you. Well, it is time to wrap up, and I really, really, really appreciate you coming on, taking the time to talk to our audience and letting them hear what you have to say. And I'm hoping that this you know, that what was said here today is useful and helpful to both adults and teens.

And so, again, I thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. And now for a mind shifting moment. When someone with as much experience as him says what he says about school shootings, there's something to it. I would like for you to examine why.

And when it comes to the future of technology and you're a teenager, you know you wanna be in that field. You're not sure what yet. Don't just go with the positions that are presented to you. There are thousands of positions out there. Don't wait for them to bring it to you.

You bring it to them. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBey.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking.

Tune in for next week.