Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome. Today, we have here miss Mae Mae from Michigan. How are you today, miss Mae Mae?

I'm fine. Thank you. I appreciate being here. Well, we appreciate you coming on. So let's just dive right in.

I know I like people to get to the point when I listen to things. So, miss Mae Mae is a Spanish teacher from Michigan who's been teaching for twenty five years, well, really over twenty five years in the school districts for undeserved populations. So it is with this background that we have her on as a guest today. And today's topics, we're gonna talk about keeping it real with students, how political correctness is choking progress for our kids, and needing apathy for education. So, miss Mae Mae, what do you mean when you say keeping it real with students?

哦，天哪。保持真實就是保持真實，意思是實話實說。讓學生明白為什麼上學，他們來這裡是為了什麼，以及他們能從中受益。好吧。那麼，不跟學生講真話有什麼問題呢？

我們的社會已經發展到這樣一個地步：我們讓這些學生根據社會壓力而非學業實力，從一個年級升到另一個年級或從一個級別升到另一個級別，這讓他們難以接受。所以，如果這些升上其他年級的學生無法讀到四年級以上的書，那就太難了。所以，我最終得出結論，每個人都必須通過，每個人都必須完成。我真誠地認為，這源自於「不讓一個孩子掉隊」的荒謬說法，嗯，我們不得不把他們送過去，卻讓他們得不到所需的信息，他們也不必保留提升能力所需的信息。

比如說，如果我的學生在四年級時閱讀程度還達不到要求，但他們被安排升上五年級、六年級、七年級、八年級。現在他們上了高中，老師要對這些學生的成績負責，以便在行政部門的評估中獲得高分。因此，在教育領域，教師很難真正實現他們當初立志成為教師時的初衷。你知道，我希望能幫助塑造和培養年輕人的思想，讓他們在未來成為社會的主宰。而他們，現在更多的是思考如何才能讓他們通過考試。

Can I share a story really with our listeners? Yes. I of an example of exactly what you're talking about that I have personally dealt with. Number one, I used to teach English as a second language, and I had someone had come to me with their, little girl who was supposed to move on from the first grade into the second grade. They made the parents, doing the best they could, made a painstaking decision to hold her back.

They didn't you know, that has repercussions for the rest of their life, their school life, but also passing her through when she wasn't ready had a repercussion. So they had to make that decision. She could not yet read. She couldn't even read. And so they made that decision.

They came to me and said, can you please help? We don't know what to do. So short version, got the girl to read. Figured out what the problem was. They wanted to put her in special education.

I knew she didn't need it. I freaking hate it when people get when they put kids give them labels like special education when they don't need them. When they do need them and they get the help they need, it's beautiful. When they don't need it, it does more damage than good. I will But I I digress.

Yeah. I will I'm very passionate about that. Yeah. I will interrupt you with that because the truth is as a, second language teacher myself, I see that students who perhaps are native, for example, Spanish speakers that come into my Spanish class, they need to work on their and their their spelling and their reading, their writing and their reading because they speak it in their house, but they don't know how to read and write it. But that's not labeling them as a special needs student.

That should be labeling them as a second language student. And where we do a disservice with the second language students is they come in from another country and perhaps they're 14 years old. Mhmm. And they've just because they are speaking another language doesn't mean they don't understand the content of the material. Oh, that's a whole another show.

But that's a whole another show. I have worked with foreigners a lot, not just teaching you a second language, and that's one thing that pisses me off when we act like when someone has an accent or because they don't yet understand our language or they're not yet fluent in our language that they're stupid. In fact, Americans, we speak one language. How stupid are we? But that's the law.

Anyway Sounds like we both have a passion about that. That will be our next I I really do. So when it come when it go going back to the the young woman, for our listeners, the the little girl that I was helping got her to learn how to read, work with her parents, told them what they needed to do at home in order to to help the process. There was a teacher that was helping minimally because that was all she could do, but at least she was she was helping. And this by the next year, this girl was at the top of her class.

她從不識字，到現在幾乎淚流滿面地看著我，說著“我讀不了書，其他人都能讀，唯獨我不讀”，這讓我心碎。也許吧，但這更讓我下定決心，確保女孩得到她需要的東西。所以，如果他們把她送走，就像系統說的那樣，她現在會有多失敗？還有，我以前在就業訓練中心工作過。有一段時間，我在就業訓練中心教數學。

這是我的另一個例子。我以前在就業培訓中心（Job Corps）教數學的時候，我的學生，也就是現在就業培訓中心的學生，大多數都是16到24歲之間，才有機會進入這個計畫。對於那些不知道就業培訓中心是什麼的人來說，它是一個替代項目，幫助那些原本只能靠救濟金生活的人獲得就業機會，如果他們還沒有高中畢業，還可以獲得普通教育發展證書（GED）或高中文憑。有些人已經擁有高中文憑了。現在你們已經了解了就業訓練中心是什麼，我在那裡教過一段時間數學。

A lot of the students that came in there were ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth, or higher grade, but their math level was at the third grade level. They couldn't even do multiplication table. Didn't look down on for it. Okay. Let's assess where you are.

讓我們想想如何讓你變得更好。所以我找到了一種吸引他們注意力的方法，這很難，尤其是在數學方面，很多人討厭數學。我熱愛數學。所以我找到了吸引他們注意力，讓他們真正去嘗試的方法。我教過一個學生。

I remember this I remember this this this boy. I loved him. I got him to do a complex math problem on the board in front of the classroom. And the truth is I made up the problem, and there really wasn't an answer that they were going to get to without a calculator. I knew that already.

But getting to the answer wasn't the point their effort was. So I pushed and pushed and pushed and got these kids to go beyond any anywhere they'd ever gone before and to see that they actually have intelligence. Because when when I got done with this one kid, he tried so hard. I mean, he literally tried his hardest, and he got really far with it. He got really as far as any of us could get without a calculator, honestly, unless you're a super genius.

而且我不是九號星座。我很聰明，但我不是九號星座。所以，你知道，我讓他去了。這很神奇，因為下課後，我之前不知道他的情況，他一輩子都被貼上了「特殊教育」的標籤，而我對此一無所知。我看著他，問道：“什麼？”

Because that's not what I saw when I looked at him. I saw an intelligent man who just needed to be his buttons to be pushed in the right places. And and I was just like, but but it's there. The intelligence is there. It's just that our systems only teach one way, so we only reach one type of learning situation.

One type of of learning type rather, and that's a large part of our our system. But, again, that's another show. I think well, I think that when you when you ask what keeping it real means, I think that that's an important aspect of the keeping it real with the students that it's not just the students that need to be kept real. It it's society. It's the parents.

是學校的行政部門，是同學們。我喜歡為我的學生提供一個安全的環境，讓他們敢於冒險，我會告訴他們民調機構是完美的。我想，也許其他人以前也聽過這個。我沒有，但這聽起來很有趣。

It is something I would say. I love it. Go ahead. Thank you. So I think that it is important for people to understand that if they can look themselves in the mirror and say, I busted my can I say it on air, I busted my ass and I worked hard and I achieved that b minus or that c plus, I I'm proud of me for doing that as opposed to the kid who says, I just googled it and got an a, and they don't retain that material or that information?

So I think by keeping it real, it's important for students to look themselves in the mirror and say, hey. Am I doing the best I can to give myself a leg up, to advocate for myself when I need it, to get that that math student who might be up high on the reading tests, but not on the math tests. But Let me ask you something Yes. Related to what you're just saying. For the student that, you know, you said that you that they should do their best to try to reach their highest heights Mhmm.

And maybe sometimes, do more initiation to try to help themselves. I'm just rewording what you said, and correct me if I'm wrong. Mhmm. How do you suggest they do that? That's a really good question.

I think that as an educator, it's my job to provide the comfort zone and build a relationship with my students so that they feel comfortable coming to me, and then I can direct them to the guidance counselor or to their math teacher directly. And I'm just using math as an example because you picked it up earlier. I think that with the societal pressures nowadays, students have a problem being themselves because they want to fit into society. And I think that if there is a way to break down that barrier and stand up for themselves so I like to try and and say things in the classroom. Like, if anybody has any questions, nobody asks, and then one person kind of Mhmm.

當他們慢慢舉手，又有點猶豫，因為他們不想引人注目時，我總是對這樣的學生說，謝謝你有勇氣提問。我相信在座的其他人也會從中受益。這很好，當他們舉手時，給予他們積極的、強制性的鼓勵。因為對許多青少年來說，因為我經常和青少年打交道，他們很難簡單地舉手發言，或者大聲說出來，因為每個人都盯著他們看，而且你承受著巨大的壓力，要成為他們認為應該成為的樣子。現在我還有一個問題想問你。好的。

Let me let me just you say that that, you know, they're looking and they have a a they're worried about what other people might say. And I almost wanna blame technology on that because I have teenagers that sit in the back seat of my car and text each other, and they're sitting next to each other, and they won't converse because they don't know how to communicate orally. Right. And I think that that's what I enjoy about having the Spanish classes because it makes them have to use language orally and auditorily to get a point across or to explain a concept or or, you know, even if it's just calling out colors and numbers. They're actually using voice to do it, which I hope will translate into conversation or communication in some respect.

嗯。剛才我們談到了你提到的要對學生保持真實，我把它改寫成能夠講真話。好的。嗯。能夠，如果我錯了，請糾正我。

Being able to just call a spade a spade, as you said to me before. Yeah. I I completely agree, but I think it's an issue that goes far beyond our school system. It's an issue in our society, and it's a large part of why I started this podcast. I wanted to create a space where people can actually speak honestly without having to worry about being canceled or having, you know, oh, you can't say this this.

You can't say that. This person's gonna be offended. That one's gonna be offended. I think that as a society, we need to start focusing on who we're helping instead of who we're offending. Completely different mentalities.

我喜歡這個。我跟你們說，我舉個例子，你知道，我聽到教室裡有人在爭吵。即使是深膚色的黑人和淺膚色的黑人之間，我也不一定能說他們是非裔美國人，因為我有個朋友來自牙買加，他是黑人。如果你叫他非裔美國人，他會說，哥們，我是牙買加人。你懂嗎？

So Yeah. You know, I and and so I use the term black as a General term. General generalization. Because when my daughter was little and she goes, why do they say black and white, mommy? My skin's peach.

So, you know what? Kids are so logical. Yes. And I love looking at at society through the eyes of the young ones because my daughter didn't understand even the, the black and white thing until she had to do a Black History Month project. And she picked, a tennis player, a black tennis player, because she played tennis at the time.

嗯。好的。對她來說，那隻是一位著名的網球運動員，而不是一位黑人網球運動員。社會給我們貼上了標籤，我們不再被劃分為人類，而是被膚色、宗教、種族和性別劃分。

And Mhmm. It's it's disheartening. But so these kids were bickering in my classroom one day, and I said, look. We're going to a party, and it's at Johnny's house. And I walk in with Mary, and Mary sees a bunch of white kids.

Does she go over to hang out with the white kids and I go over to hang out with the Latino kids and Johnny goes to hang out with the black kids? I said, no. And they go, oh, miss. You being racist? I said, no.

I'm not. Listen to what I have to say. The three of us hang together because we're all Puerto Rican. It doesn't matter that one of us has blonde hair and blue eyes, and one of us has black skin and an Afro from the seventies, and the other one is an olive colored skin and stands only four foot seven. It because we are all, we are going to hang together.

It's not the black people and the white people and the Hispanic people. Completely agree. Good boy. That's really a whole another show. We could go into that topic.

Let's talk about that. About keeping it real. You know? Yes. I I agree.

That's a part of what I was that's a part of, what the, you know, conversation that we had even before this Mhmm. Recording of this podcast that it's Which we should have recorded. It was so rich. Right? I know.

But it's it's so we are in a society. We are so off balance when it comes to a lot of things and especially when it comes to expression, when it comes to verbiage. We are very off balance. We think as a white woman, the second you say black oh, you're being racist. You're talking about race.

A black person, the second they say something about you being white oh, you're being racist too. No. If you actually listen to the content of what I'm saying, I'm talking about bigger things than just race. Right. You are white.

I am black. That is not all we are. That is not all we are. I am a black woman. I am proud to be a black woman, but that's not all I am.

我說的可不只這些。這可不是我的全部。對吧？你懂的。我也說過同樣的話。

I was talking to a person who's gay, and I was like, yeah. You're gay. So what? What else are you? It's like, can we focus on other things?

Can we talk about other parts of you instead of just focusing on one? And it's not that those things don't matter, aren't important, but we're giving them a % attention when we should be giving them 50% attention. Or less. Because if you ask me from what culture I come, I can tell you, well, I'm part of the Latina culture because I I feel That means the Latin culture inside her body because you don't speak Spanish. I speak Spanish too, so I know what she said.

But I'm also a mom. Mhmm. So I'm part of the mom culture. I'm a dog owner. I'm part of that culture.

我大學時加入女生聯誼會。我屬於希臘文化。我是運動員。我屬於運動員文化。你懂嗎？

So there's more to us, and then you go into religion. You can go into Right. We just for people to categorize. And I think that when I go back to the students in school, working in an underserved population where they're written off or we don't have the technology that they need in the classroom to give them that leg up. Mhmm.

我認為我們有必要說一句「嘿，讓我們為自己爭取權益，爭取我們需要的東西，這樣你才能占到便宜。」 就像，我給你你需要的東西。為什麼不乖乖接受呢？明白嗎？

接受它，然後繼續前進。你知道，有些人會接受，而有些人會，你知道，就像，不。你不會成為下一個史蒂芬·庫裡，因為那些努力成為下一個史蒂芬·庫裡的人最終會成為下一個史蒂芬·庫裡。現在對我們的聽眾來說，我希望聽眾們能留在房間裡，一起接受這次訪談。我想說，我知道有很多人同意你的觀點。

也有很多人不同意你剛才說的某些觀點。是的。在這個節目裡，我喜歡聽聽大家的意見，因為我認為每個人都有自己的觀點，大多數人都有自己正確的觀點，即使他們的觀點有些愚蠢。其中總有那麼一絲道理。好吧。

So we think that we should be able to to start keeping it real in our society. Let's take it to the extremes because that's what we do in our society. Let's say everybody says everything they want, whenever they want, all the time. Would that also be a problem? Yes.

Somewhere, where does the filter come in? And, you know, you we we talked a little bit earlier about the kid who wasn't able to read and and couldn't pass into the next grade, but then you have people that say, yeah. But how can you put a 15 year old back in eighth grade? Because they're either gonna drop out of school or they're going to, you know, be ridiculed or whatever. Mhmm.

And the the the student who has the street smarts is going to say I I mean, I had a kid tell me that I needed to shut up because I was gonna get bitch slapped if I didn't. And this is from a 15 year old kid. I I I was dumbfounded, but I couldn't write him up because he didn't hit me. All he was yep. All he was doing was talking.

So He still threatened you. Well right? But like you said, can anybody say anything about anything, everything, anywhere? And that is taking it to the other extreme. I agree.

I I don't know where our society stopped. There's a fine line between calling a spade a spade and you know? Because I shoulda turned around, and I coulda said to him, look, you little SOB. Who the hell do you think you are talking to an adult like that? But if this student talks like that at home to his parents and his parents talk back to him like that, that's the norm for him.

So our societal norms vary from location to location, from people to people, from culture to culture. You know, like, if I'm on the basketball court and I I throw a bad pass, I and I go, oops. I'm sorry. I'm gonna sound like a ding a ling. But if I say, oh, my bad, and I just hit my chest and we keep playing, then I fit in.

Whereas in the classroom, if I trip over somebody's foot and I go, oh, my bad, they're like, does this teacher know what she's talking about? I should have said, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. So I think dialectical differences come into play Good point. Okay.

在這方面也是如此。正如您所說，這個問題涉及方方面面，所以當我說要保持真實時，我認為保持真實必須從這種多方面的對話開始，因為教育體系已經崩潰了。非常糟糕，就像碎玻璃一樣。過去25年來，我目睹了教育體系的衰落，因為人們似乎不再尊重教育本身。

And that I mean, I could go off on on 20 more tangents. Is it because the teacher is only getting paid the same thing that the guy working at McDonald's is because we've upped the minimum wage to make it a living wage. Well, a teacher has to have x number of degrees and x number of continuing education to maintain a certification. And then when COVID hit, you know, all of a sudden, parents are like, oh, teachers are worth something. But now that we're back in the classroom, teachers are back to being second class citizens according to the government.

You know? We could just go on and on and take I call them octopus tentacles because I wanna go back to, what you had said when when I had asked you about, you know, going to the extreme of just saying anything you want all the time anywhere. And I agree. We don't wanna do that either. My point in asking that question is the fact that in our society and, again, this is not just in schools, but schools reflect what's going on in our societies.

Mhmm. Mhmm. We need balance. Amen. We only operate in extremes.

Look at the look at the left and the right parties, political parties. Both parties are primarily been taken over by extreme nut jobs. So both parties are are at extremes right now. Absolutely. I mean, really, the the the if the Republicans a lot of Republicans don't even wanna admit they're Republican anymore.

And then you have the Democrats, which are just just cuckoo. Woo hoo. There's air in my head to the extremes. Okay. Well, there's a lot of us that are in the middle that aren't in those extremes.

We might have the political party on paper, be a part of the political party on paper, but we're not those extremes. But, yeah, you can lean fiscally one way and. Right. Right. And for me, I'm I'm really, truly, truly, truly in the middle.

是的。有些事情我非常共和黨化，有些事情我則相當民主黨化。這取決於你談論的主題。但這只是我們社會走向極端的一個例子。我稱之為精神極端主義者。

If you think about that all all or nothing principle, black and white Right. There's those shades of gray. If you think about the sun coming up, the sun doesn't automatically show up in a dark sky, and it's a good analogy. Yeah. It slowly rises.

Right. And then the moon, it slowly sets, and the moon comes up. And it it's it's a phase that that it goes through, which many people think if you are not on a the 100 or the zero, as you said, that you are wishy washy, and you're somewhere in the middle that, oh, you can't make a decision. That's your problem. Whereas Mhmm.

這些學生和學校裡的人都在為考試而教。圈出正確答案並填入。例如，我當過救生員，也教過心肺復甦術（CPR）很多年。我的心肺復甦術（CPR）選擇題考不了分，因為我腦子裡想的是，如果下雨，答案應該是a。但如果晴天，答案應該是b。

I think like you. I get it. But and so that you know, so I think that what these students need to learn is that it's not always an a or b answer. It's not always all of the above or none of the above. Yes.

Yes. You need to so the component that we're missing is the critical thinking, and that's where students don't just ask what, but they ask the how and the why. Yes. And we are missing as a society the how and the why. And I'm gonna take it back to picking up my Google and being able to if if she asks me a question about, you know, what time does the sunrise, I can Google it, and it'll give me the answer in zero point o two four seven seconds.

But you didn't ask me when the sun rose in the Eastern time zone or in Guam, which is actually yesterday for me, but tomorrow for you. Mhmm. Or you know? So my question to you should have been, when do you want to know or where do you want to know when the sun rises? Right.

我認為這就是背景。是的。所以，我從您那裡聽到的是，我說解決方案的一部分是以解決方案為導向。而我從您那裡聽到的是，成功秘訣的另一部分，就是不要只考慮非黑即白的問題。是的。

In order to find your solution, I have to stir in my mixed wet white wet ingredients and dry ingredients. Right. Exactly. So what I'm hearing so far is being solution oriented, which has to do with a mentality because that's where everything starts. Everything in your life does start with mentality.

All your your victories, your failures, they all start with your thinking. So and that's what I tend to focus on, so that's why I bring it up. But being solution oriented, that has to do with your mindset. And then not just thinking in terms of black and white and understanding that there are thousands of colors in between. And then context.

情境.情境.有些人會愚蠢地說「不」。要嘛是這個，要嘛是那個。語境不重要。

And I say foolishly because if that's the way you think, you fool. I'm just gonna say straight up that's foolish. It's foolish. Context does matter because like you said, the time zones. If you're talking about something like the sun rising, what time does the sunrise?

Well, if you're talking about here, that's one answer. If you're talking about in Nigeria, that's a different answer, etcetera etcetera. We we don't always look at context, which is why when you see something on TV and or on TV or social media, whatever the media form is that's giving you news about a person, please don't just accept it what it is because I find that 80% of the time context is removed. They're only giving you facts without all of the facts. Context are some of the facts, and so they're painting a different picture and giving a different narrative than the actual truth.

事實和真相並非一回事。真相包含一些事實，但真相並非只包含一些事實，就像蛋糕並非只包含麵粉一樣。阿門。你懂的？沒錯。

Preach your little sister. So, but yeah. So where our time is running our time is running out because we got so much of where I wanna talk about. But I do wanna hit on we talked about apathy in education. Okay.

Tell the audience, what does apathy mean? I think apathy is the lack of desire for anything. When you are apathetic about something, it means you really don't care what's going on one way or the other. It's just like, meh. Right.

所以，你說對教育漠不關心，其實是說我們今天的年輕人，總的來說，我們今天的年輕人根本不在乎教育。我傾向於同意這種說法，無論他們是否在家裡被灌輸了價值觀。在某些文化中，教育很重要，學生也因此付出了努力。這可能是外在的動力，也可能是內在的動力。

But then the others are just like, well, I don't need to learn that because as I referred to before, Google can give me my answer. There's no need for me to retain knowledge because I can use the Internet to find information. Good point. Very good point because we didn't grow up with the Internet. We had encyclopedias, and you had to go to library.

Yes. And you had to and then you had to memorize it because, you know, if you shut that book, you're like, oh, which which did I get it out of Britannica, or did I get it out of the other? Right. Right. You know?

嗯，所以，說到對教育的冷漠，我們確實認為這是一個問題。我同意你的觀點，因為我在與年輕人打交道的過程中，親眼目睹了這一點。這取決於你談論的人群，因為情況確實如此。並非所有年輕人都一樣，就像並非所有成年人都一樣。當我邀請一些青少年做客時，我會和他們多聊聊這個主題，因為我知道很多聽眾都同意你的觀點，認為這是一個問題，但我也想從青少年的角度來聽聽你的看法，因為我們談論的正是青少年。

Exactly. And we'll talk about that in the future. But what I wanna ask you, as, as we end this particular episode, what do you have to say to the teenagers who are listening right now? Oh, the message I'd like to give is to get out there and make a difference. Take a stand for something that you value, find why you value it, and then communicate that information to the rest of us as opposed to just following blindly like sheep.

確保你真的擁有熱情和同情心，並花時間捍衛正義。你知道，有一首鄉村歌曲唱道，如果你不能捍衛某件事，就不要屈服於任何事。嗯。我認為，你越了解那些能激發你熱情的事物，就越能做出改變。我同意這一點。

Amen. Woo hoo. What? With that, we will, end this episode. And thank you, miss Mei Mei from Michigan, for, for agreeing to come on here and give us your thoughts.

And now for a mind shifting moment. If you are an adult out there listening and you work with youth or you have a teenager of of any age, I want you to think about this. When we don't allow them to express themselves freely, and I mean in conversation, I'm only talking about conversation, We need to allow them to speak their minds and speak the truth as they see it even if they're absolutely dead wrong. It is so important that they're able to express themselves to you because if they can express themselves to you, they're not going to come to you when they need to. They need to feel free to speak their minds and speak their opinions even if they're not popular, even if you disagree.

Because then you have an opportunity to talk about why that opinion exists and do something about it. Listen to your teens instead of telling them how they should think. Listen to how they're already thinking. Maybe you can give them good guidance. They're not gonna listen to you if you don't listen to them.

And if you're a teen out there right now, I want you to stop bowing down to political correctness. You do not have to worship everybody else's emotions. You can stand up and speak up for yourself even if what you have to say is not popular. Have conversations with people. Whether they agree with you or not, try to have conversations because no solutions can come from you shutting up and sitting down.

Every single societal thing that has changed in the world has come from somebody standing up against the tide, against what's common, and speaking their minds. I think that many of you hold the solutions to your problems, but you're just not speaking up to have the conversations you need to have to make them happen. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast.

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