Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome everyone. Today's episode is a little different. So today we have with us Erica Bess.

你們之前聽過她。她是一位治療師，已經上過幾期節目了。但今天，她並非以治療師的身分來到這裡。她的身份有所不同。所以今天，她要做一件非常大膽、非常勇敢的事情，敞開心扉，講述她的個人經歷，以及我們有些人稱之為「賣淫」的事情。

Prostitution is usually different than we think, and you're gonna hear about that. So this is a two part episode. So this is part one. And then make sure you listen to part two that will be released the same day. So we're gonna have a raw and honest conversation about what prostitution looks like and what it doesn't look like.

現在，在我們深入探討之前，讓我先提供一些事實和數據。根據deliverfund.org的數據，估計美國每年約有6.5萬名婦女和兒童被迫淪為性奴。由於調查難度較大，實際數字差異很大。所以實際數字可能比這個數字更大。目前還無法確定。

大多數年輕人都是另一個事實，而且大多數年輕人都容易失敗。抱歉。大多數年輕人往往在12到14歲之間成為兒童賣淫和性交易的受害者。根據sexcrimeslaw.com的數據，女性平均在16、17歲時就開始賣淫。而Erica入行時，已經不是12、14歲了。

She was a little bit older. And there is a difference between sex slavery and prostitution. But I want you to know that that difference is primarily on paper only. In reality, they're not much different. I want you to know how serious and prevalent this actually is.

And Erica wasn't necessary wasn't necessarily quote unquote trafficked in the way we usually think of trafficking, but she was a sexually exploited youth. Thank you, Erica, for coming today. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me.

Alright. Let's hop right into it. So, why don't we start off by you telling us how old you were when you got into prostitution, and tell us your story. Okay. So I was 19.

I had a late birthday, so it was my first year of college. And I was always a year older than I was supposed to be in school. So, it was my first year in college. I literally had just dropped off my things in my dorm and unpacked, and it was my first day in a new city. And I was gonna go out with my friend to explore, but she ended up canceling.

所以我當時就想，你知道嗎？我就是喜歡一個人去。所以當時我19歲，在城裡探險，就在那時我遇到了我未來的皮條客。好吧，是的。

再跟我們詳細說說我是怎麼遇到他的？嗯，我當時走路的時候遇到了他，然後發生了什麼事？我遇到了他。他在街上攔住了我。他正朝我的反方向走。我們其實是擦肩而過。

然後他說，對不起，小姐。我看起來好像不是本地人。我環顧四周，看著周圍的建築，感覺「哇，真是太棒了」。他說，對不起，小姐。

我可以誇你一下嗎？我穿著一條非常漂亮的裙子，我說，當然可以。結果他說，好吧，我的讚美有點過分，所以我還能稱讚你嗎？然後我就忍不住笑了出來。沒想到他馬上就開始耍我的花招了。

Because if he had said, I wanna give you a compliment, but it's x rated, and I said, ew. Disgusting. And I kept it moving. That would have been it the end of it. Done deal.

但因為我笑了，覺得挺有趣的，他就說，好吧。她是我可以試試的。你知道嗎？嗯。他帶了個拉桿箱，說他一會兒要去別的地方。

But it seemed like he didn't have anywhere to go at the time, and he just started walking with me and talking with me. And then we basically spent the whole day together. He was getting to know me. I told him I was in school. He told me that he was into, like, writing music and that he worked for a prevalent agency that was, like, well known for music and that he did, like, ghostwriting.

So So I was like, oh, okay. Cool. And then sometimes he did, like, background, you know, guitar for other artists when they came into town. So I was like, oh, okay. Cool.

But I was 19, and he was 49, which is only a few years, younger than my mother and my father at the time. Wow. Yeah. So but he did not look that way. Unfortunately, is is that is that common?

Yes. It's Mhmm. Men who are into that lifestyle tend to be older, and they tend to seek out younger women because younger women are easier to, mold and get under their control. And as a woman who's older would be a little bit more aware of, like, the red flags and be like, no. You're not gonna do that to me.

And but a young woman who's just fresh out of their home and never really got to see the world yet, like, bright eyes open and ready. And you know that that thing, they saw me they saw you coming. He saw me coming. Okay. Yep.

So fast forward to, what led into or the the, let me say, the pathway into you starting to do sex for money for him. Okay. So we had spent the whole day together, and then we ended up at this place where he was playing pool. And he mentioned something about, being crooked. And I was like, well, what does that mean?

Because I thought crooked meant you're, like, a bad person. He was like, no. Crooked just means, that you are financially hungry, and you're willing to do almost anything to get it. So he was like, I know you're a young 19 year old struggling college student. Wouldn't you like it if you didn't have to work so hard and get money and do the easiest thing possible to get money?

And then, of course, I'm like, my ears are, like, wide open. I was like, well, what? What do I have to do? He's like, you barely have to do anything. And he was like, oh, I was like, oh, okay.

然後他讓我等了大概一兩天，因為他不想說具體是什麼。但那天晚上我們在一起的時候，他已經勸我把ATM的錢拿走。他說，為了讓我告訴你你要做什麼，你必須投資我們要做的事情。我說，好吧。但這絕對是絕密的。

比如，嗯，是什麼？是什麼？他說，嗯，你自己決定要付多少錢。我剛拿到學費退款，所以還有幾百美元。我說，好吧。

Whatever you need to do. I got it. And he'll he's like, we'll meet again, and we'll we'll discuss the details. So I went to by the end of the night, I'm going to the ATM, and I'm taking out, like, I think, a hundred and $50 for this man. Don't even know him from a stranger, like, a pain on the wall, but I'm giving him my money.

他說，好的。我們過幾天再見面，我會把所有後勤安排告訴你。我說，好的。然後我幾天後回去見他，他說，自從你認識我以來，你的眼神變了。我當時想，也許是因為我對你很有興趣，我想知道我怎麼賺這麼多錢。

所以他一開始說，我可以和一個男人在一起，只是為了支付我和某人相處的時間，例如一個小時。一開始他什麼都沒說，只是說性。他說，我可以把你訓練得非常熟練，你什麼都不用做，只要跟某人聊一個小時，就能賺300美元。他還說，如果你願意，你也可以成為施虐狂，不用和任何人發生性關係，只需要操弄某人一個小時，就能得到錢。所以他給我帶來了這些不同的想法。

And I was like, I don't know if I could do that, but he was like, well, it's up to you. He was like, how do you think, most of these women are out here getting their money? He was like, they have side hustles. And he's like, you can do it if you just follow my lead. And I was like, that's interesting.

後來我們暫時擱置了這件事，然後我感覺自己經歷了一段磨合期，最後他成了我的男友。他告訴我所有我想聽的話。祂給予我需要的關注，或者說，給予我認為我需要的關注。然後慢慢地，好吧，現在你是我的女朋友了。

And then I said to him, well, if you still want me to, you know, be with these men for money when you get jealous because I'm your girlfriend. He said the only way that I would get jealous of you interacting with other men is if you didn't make them pay for your time. And I was like, oh, okay. So as long as they're paying, then he's he feels like he's on top. And, that's how I got into it.

So we would go into clubs around the area and kinda, like, scope out the scene. And if any but he said if any man comes up to talk to you, he automatically wants to have sex with you. And I was like, how do you figure that? He was like, trust me. He's like, a man doesn't talk to a woman unless he wants to have sex with her.

And he's like, he can be in the background, act like we don't know each other, and he could look at a person and tell if they were the right type of person to be a trick, and and a trick is somebody who's willing to pay for sex. Right. So I was like, okay. So I eventually got into it like that because I was interested in making easy money. Okay.

Yep. Mhmm. Did you think you were sexually being sexually exploited at the time? At first, no. But then knowing the truth about things and seeing that I was uncomfortable with the situation and realizing that I was chipping away at my spirit as a person, I was like, no.

我在賣淫，這對我的精神健康不利。所以，我一開始沒意識到，但我一直這麼做。一直這麼做。嗯。是的。

And the was it the money that motivated you to keep doing it? Yeah. Because I was going to school full time, and I didn't wanna work, like, a regular job. Mhmm. And, I would have gotten, like, only, like, part time hour pay at minimum wage.

他說，你完全可以做得更好。只要你照我說的做，你知道，我會為你規劃好一切，你就能擁有這種生活方式。我一開始還好，但後來我意識到這對我的精神生活造成了損害。我告訴他，我覺得我再也堅持不下去了。他問我，你確定嗎？

And I was like, I I don't know. I really don't I don't think I can. It's just not right for me. And he said, well, okay. Well, if you don't wanna do it, then you gotta bring some girls, to me to to get into it because I need some form of income.

我當時就想，你別寫音樂之類的東西，我發現那也只是個幌子。他認識一些業內人士，但他其實不是他自稱的那樣。你懂嗎？嗯。所以，就算他真的寫了點東西，他也從未得到任何榮譽。

例如，他的名字從未出現在任何母帶、唱片之類的東西上，所以他一直在私下收錢。所以他告訴我，我得帶其他女人來，這樣我才能擺脫困境。他還說他可以把我訓練成“老鴇”，也就是女皮條客。我說，好吧。既然這樣我就能擺脫困境，那我就帶個人給你。

沒問題。只要我不再需要繼續下去就好，因為我已經受夠了。所以，我們會去城裡那些有很多女人的俱樂部或地方，就像一個聚會。我會尋找他，他會教我如何尋找獨處的女人。你不會想像皮條客那樣去接近一個女人，因為周圍一定有很多女人在人群中保護朋友的安全。

他們的目標是獨身女性。好吧。所以，當你是個皮條客，想招募人來為你賣淫，為你帶來收入時，你就會把目標鎖定在獨身女性身上，因為一群朋友會試圖保護你。所以，皮條客通常無法成功招募到目標女性，因為這些人周圍都是關心她們的朋友。但如果你是一個獨自四處遊蕩的單身女性，你就會成為這些掠食者的目標。

Very good point to make, Erica, because you're absolutely right. They know what to look for. Mhmm. Let's dive into that a little bit more. What specifically, besides being alone, what made you a good target?

Oh, it was like a recipe for disaster. Well, as a child, I had a a instance of molestation, and then my father wasn't in the household. And after my molestation, my mother kind of, like, distanced herself physically and emotionally connecting to me, for whatever reason. And that was, like, a perfect storm for me to have lower self esteem than I should have had for myself. And when I went off into college, it was like a brand new world, and I was just like Dorothy in the at the Wiz.

And I'm just like, oh my gosh. Everything's so wonderful. This is great. I'm finally on my own. And then somebody saw me and was like, oh, she's an attractive female, and she's by herself.

And let me let me pick her brain to see if her self esteem is where it needs to be. Because if it was, he wouldn't have been able to do that to me. But because it wasn't where it needed to be, he was like, oh, perfect. Let me work on her and groom her into this. I'm gonna take a break right here and and talk to the audience.

I want you guys to know that what Erica is describing, she's describing her own personal experiences, which is not everyone's, but it is common. Extremely, extremely common. And those I'm gonna branch out a little bit because we're talking about prostitution here. But a lot of what she does is just described domestic abusers look for, too. They look for the women they consider weak, and the ones who are the weakest are the ones who don't know who they are yet and have low self esteem.

Quite a common theme amongst those who are looking to victimize women for one reason, whether to date them, whether to beat them, whether to sexually exploit them. They're still looking to victimize women for whichever reason. The thing that they all have in common is what you just said. They're looking for someone who doesn't know who they are, which is why I'm so adamant about make teaching young women who they are and encouraging them and building them up so that they are less likely to be the next victim. I want to reduce their victim pool.

Hopefully piss them off enough. That'll be great for me. Now I would love that. Right. Now tell me what else you looked for when you were looking for other women to to to bring into the life and turn over to him.

你在找什麼？單身女性，年輕，不超過25歲，但超過18歲。也許會找一個看起來像是在找人，但實際上並沒有出現的女性。有一次，一個女孩不停地查看手機，四處張望。就好像她在等人，但人卻沒有出現。

And, he saw her first, and he he, like, alerted my attention. He was like, go talk to her over there. She's she's one of us. And I was like, how does he how does he even know this? But he knows.

So I go over there, and I talk to her. And we end up talking, and then I introduce her to him. And she's like he's like, hey. Do you wanna go to the bar or something? Were you waiting for somebody and they didn't show up?

And she's like, yeah. She's like, flaky friends. And he's like, don't worry. We're we're just gonna go hang out at the pool hall and just, you know, hang out. And he she was like, if you're not doing anything, come come on with us.

我想她之所以感到安全，是因為當你看到另一隻看起來很友善的雌性時，我就在她身邊。但在那一刻，我卻成了一個掠食者。所以我覺得很危險。你以為看到一隻雌性就沒事了，一定是安全的。

Don't let that fool you. I always like to say, the devil's not gonna walk up to you and say, hey. I'm Satan. Wanna come with me? He's gonna he's gonna come as an angel of light.

He's gonna look all pretty. And we and we tend to not just in this subject, but in other areas, we tend to fall for, demons and angel outfits. Mhmm. And that's why he sent me and then watered her watered her up to get to okay. Now it's me that you have to meet.

And he did the same thing that he did to me and told her, hey. I have I have a compliment for you. It's a little x rated. And she cracked up too. And then it was the same game that he ran on me.

他在我面前追著她。這種事常發生。所以我想重申一下，指出你說過的一些話。我聽到的是操縱。嗯。

And would you con would you say that he controlled you? Yes. Mentally. That's bingo. That's what I wanted to point out.

Did he beat you? Never. Never put a hand on me. He didn't ask you. He controlled your mind.

是啊。他他他就像用皮帶勒住你的腦子，控制你一樣。他還用這個跟我指手畫腳，說我不像街上那些皮條客，會把你打得遍體鱗傷，然後跟你說，賤人，我的錢呢？我沒必要這麼做。他說，我看起來根本不像個皮條客。

你覺得皮條客是什麼樣子的？閃電俠那一集的品質怎麼樣？這個問題問得真棒。我們會在本次對話的第二部分討論這個問題。我們真的會討論這個問題。

But but yes. And I wanna point that out to the listeners and especially young women who are listening right now. He did to you what's, is often referred to as love bombing. Mhmm. That's one term for it.

There's actually several terms for it, but I'm gonna use that term right now. Love bombing, which is, oh, you're great. Let me, let me show you some that I care. Let me show you that I'm nice. Oh, yeah.

Let me manipulate you into let me manipulate into what I want. He didn't just come right up to say, yo, bitch. Wanna be my hoe? I mean, no one's gonna miss that. One though.

He says it like Go ahead. No. He was so charming and everything, and I was just so mesmerized that this older guy was interested in me. And I was 19, fresh out of the the home. And I'm like, oh, wow.

This cute 49 year old guy who didn't really look 49. He looked nice for his age. And then, I was, like, you know, enthralled. And then when we started having sex, he opened up my world to sex in a whole another level that I had never experienced. So I was like, oh my god.

I was really open then, like, with the mental manipulation. I was, like, super susceptible. And, also, I wanna point out for, the young women who are listening, there is never a situation where a 49 year old is interested in a girl that young where it's not predatory. It a % of the time, one way or another, it's predatory. Even if they are a family friend, it's still predatory.

So keep that in mind. We're gonna end it here for now. And if you wanna hear the rest of Erica's story and we wanna talk about more details about what does a pimp look like? Because most of y'all have it wrong. And, and several other things.

We're gonna talk about that in part two of this episode. So stay tuned. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like, and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast.

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