Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. Today's episode, as you saw by the title, is a very serious one. We have today with us Susan m Patterson, and she's the mother who had her children.

我相信她有三個孩子被她丈夫性侵了。我們接下來要聊聊身為被性侵者的父母是什麼樣的感受。我們經常談論性侵受害者，但我很少看到有人談論父母的視角，以及那些不得不遭受性侵的人，而這些事情就發生在他們眼皮底下。所以我就直接進入正題吧。蘇珊，跟我們講講你的故事吧。

好的。我遇到一個看起來完美的男人，然後嫁給了他。三年來，我們的關係非常好。他是一個混合家庭，他把孩子們照顧得非常好。我和我的孩子們，他的孩子們，還有他，我們都相處得很好。

我們一起做了很多事。感覺很棒。然後就變了。他……我不想拿喝酒當藉口，但喝酒讓他變成了現在這個樣子。嗯。

He became verbally abusive to me and the kids. And it got so bad that we we all just try to avoid being around him. And then he became physically abusive. He would get angry at things like medical care. The kids, I spent too much money on doctor bills and dental visits, things that go with having kids.

Mhmm. He got so angry that the kids locked themselves in a room one night, and he kicked the door open. So we were all pretty intimidated. And the atmosphere in the home became it was just bad, not good. And things were always out of kilter.

And I thought it was because of his drinking and his anger issues. And a couple of years into that, I got a call at work from a counselor, and she said, you need to come in right now. I have your daughter in my office, and we need to talk. And, you know, when you knows you just know something really bad is about to happen. That's, pardon me, that's how I felt.

所以當我上車、停好車、沿著人行道走、穿過走廊，走進輔導員辦公室時，她關上了門，然後直接衝進來，說：「你女兒指控你丈夫猥褻她。」 我坐了下來。我不知道該說什麼。我看著她，我的女兒，然後問：「我們現在該怎麼辦？」輔導員接下來的問題並不是因為她認為我在撒謊，或者我女兒在撒謊。

And the counselor's next question was not in a way that she thought I was lying or anybody was lying, but it was one of surprise. You believe her? Wow. And later, I came to realize that was because most the vast majority of parents who are called in for that reason just don't believe their kid. Mhmm.

But I my my child wouldn't lie about something like that, and I knew it. And in my mind, which at this point was racing, suddenly, I kinda saw that the the disharmony, the the anger, the way the kids acted at home, they just would hide. I suddenly understood. It wasn't just me who was getting battered. It was it was much worse than that.

於是我帶她走了。我們離開了學校，輔導老師給了我一個輔導員的名字。輔導員做了她該做的一切，然後，我帶著孩子去了朋友家。然後我回家，讓他離開。他開始變得憤怒和暴力，我告訴他我已經報警了。

They're on their way. And you can either stay here and get arrested, or you can leave now. So he that scared him, and he left. And I never let him in the house again after that. That's some it's a pretty heavy day, I would say.

Yeah. What was your next thought? Now he's out of the house. What now? I sat down and made a list of things to do, like call the counselor and Mhmm.

諸如此類。這時，我渾身都在發抖。然後，是的。我開始往牆上丟東西。嗯。

And after a while, I, I just kinda sat in the middle of the kitchen and cried for a while. And then I told myself that, I had to get it together for my kids because the counselor had mentioned that if he molested one, he probably molested the others. Right. So, we had a family meeting, and the other kids said, yeah. And so then we had to Can I ask how old were the kids at the time?

當時他們大概14、15、16歲吧，我記得。好的。然後我們被帶到警察局，每個人都必須做筆錄。我記得警察局的牆是那種令人作嘔的綠色。不過警察們都很友善。

They, which I have since learned is not always the case. So Right. Right. We were blessed in that regard. And then we all went home, and we ordered pizza.

第二天，我們沒去上學也沒去上班，待在家裡，努力思考接下來的生活，如何踏出下一步。你問過問題了嗎？談話進行得怎麼樣？你主動開口了嗎？他們害怕開口嗎？

是的。他們不敢說話，因為他是個極其高明的操縱者。我相信。他非常厲害。多年來，他一直在用他的話語和行動來恐嚇他們，以至於他們根本不敢告訴我，不敢告訴任何人。

And, finally, the young one spoke up. And, I have to say, I totally had no idea. I knew things were out of balance, out of whack, but I thought it was because of the drinking and the abusiveness. I didn't think it was it never crossed my mind it could be anything like that. And there it was for years just happening over and over again.

What were you what would you say You said you didn't know. I'm a firm believer that, there's a % of the time, there's red flags. Doesn't mean that we see them. It doesn't mean that we recognize them. Mhmm.

Looking I I would like to interject with that and also say sometimes we don't see the red flags because we have on red glasses. Mhmm. So it all looks the same. Yeah. You mentioned he was already abusive.

Yes. So seeing red flags is harder to do when you're in the midst of an already abusive situation where there's mental manipulation going on and physical abuse. So although I wasn't in your situation, I do know at least that much. But if you in going back, you know, hindsight's 2020, as we say. Going back now, you know, with a different set of glasses, what would you say were the red flags that you just didn't see at the time?

我覺得孩子們躲著他，躲著他，總是找藉口不在家。我覺得那遠不止這些。現在我知道，這遠遠不止他對我的態度。是的。當最大的一個孩子告訴我們她要搬出去的時候，她還說了些什麼。

She looked directly at, her father, and she said and we all know why. And I thought, I don't know why. What is she talking about? I asked him directly. What does she mean?

What is she talking about? I don't know. When did she move out? Pardon me? When did she move out?

When did she move out? As soon as she graduated high school. Okay. And, and I just think of that statement, and I think, why didn't she tell me? Why didn't she just blurted out right there in the room?

I really I really just had no idea. I'm at and I remember thinking, what is going on? There's something wrong. And then and then he kept the household in such an uproar all the time that we couldn't, there was no way to deal with anything. Yeah.

我知道和孩子們的談話很艱難，很難讓他們敞開心扉，就像你說的，不只是你的孩子，大多數孩子都是這樣。這是一個很難提起、很難坦誠地談論的話題，尤其是當它發生在我們家的時候。他們會怪你嗎？他們說不會。你是怎麼想的？

我想他們可能有點擔心。在他們跟我說話之前，我會跟他們說他們想知道他還會不會回來。只有當我說服他們他再也不會出現在他們身邊時，他們才會提起這件事。好吧。所以他們覺得不安全。

No. I'm gonna also make a comment here. Children who don't feel safe, well, they usually they'll never open up. Yeah. That's true.

你知道，無論你身處何種境地，無論這種不安全感是什麼，如果他們感覺不安全，就不會敞開心胸。就像我們感覺情感上不安全一樣，我們也不會敞開心胸。對他們來說，更有可能是身體上的安全。但讓我們談談你作為父母的情況，因為我們經常聽到這樣的故事，談論受害者。嗯。

The the children that it happens to, and we should keep talking about that. And that's very important to talk about. But we don't talk about what the parents of the children go through when they find out. Everybody's situation is not the same. Some people damn well knew and didn't do anything about it.

That is absolutely true. Yes. It is. That is not the the truth in your case. So that's that's other people's story.

And I'm saying that more so for the audience than you. We're only talking about your story and your experience. Everybody else's experience, they can come on and talk about it if they want to. But for you, how did you feel as a parent? Well, they, all went to counseling and addressed some of their issues, and, some of the issues got better.

Some haven't. I also went to counseling. And Okay. Good. The counselor was experienced in the area, and she told me that I would have feelings of guilt and so forth.

So we talked about that a lot, and, she helped. I don't think you can get past something like this unless you do talk about it. Absolutely. However, there has never been a day that I haven't felt guilty even though it wasn't technically my fault. Counselors and people can say that all day.

這不是你的錯。你不知道。但在我看來，我應該知道。在我內心深處，我應該早點採取行動。讓我們來探討一下這句話，因為我認為現在在場的其他家長也經歷過，或者可能正在經歷和你一樣的境遇。

他們從未談論過這件事，也不願承認。這很痛苦。我知道他們每個人都感到內疚。有些人應該感到內疚，但有些人不應該，因為每個人的情況都不一樣。

How do you get out of that? That feeling of guilt and I wish I had done things different and on and on and on. It never ever goes away. It's like when somebody dies and you have grief in your heart, it doesn't go away, that feeling of loss, but you become more able to cope with it. And I still have nightmares on occasion.

我的孩子也一樣。這已經變成你DNA的一部分了。它如此具有侵略性，如此令人無法接受。那麼，他怎麼可以這樣呢？為什麼？

Mhmm. So the way I found to cope with my struggles was to try and help others. And because I was a teacher, I would became very active in helping having a group at school that helped teen girls. It wasn't I didn't, like, invite them to this group, But we had a group where we would talk about, abusive situations at home is the way we phrased it. Mhmm.

And I would say two thirds easily of my my students had severely abusive situations at home. And, I mean, you can say all day long that, it's not my secret to keep. It's yours, referring to him, but it's not that simple. Yes. You there's no way to get passed over through this kind of thing unless you do talk about it, but it's really hard to talk about.

It is. And for those who are listening right now, and, again, I'm talking to the the parents who are where you were or who who been there, but they still are where you were because they haven't dealt with it. Talking talking about it really helps. Whether it's professionally or with a friend, you gotta you gotta talk about it because until you get over it, you will remain under it. Yes.

It will hover over you. Yes. Do you feel like this has, affected your life in any way? You mentioned that you it it you you turn lemons into lemonade by, starting that girls group because you now understood the need for something like that. But how what other ways has it affected your life?

I have I still have very serious trust issues. I don't let people get I don't let men get close. Okay. I just don't I can't. There's something in me that just won't let me trust.

我正在努力，但近期看不到太大變化。而且都過了三十多年。哇。是啊。你們聽到了嗎？

三十多年過去了，她依然哽咽，依然難以啟齒。這期雜誌裡這個主題的重要性可見一斑。它絕非小事。對於正在聽我講述的那些孩子在眼皮底下遭受虐待的家長們，你會說什麼呢？不管是在他們家，朋友家，還是兄弟姊妹家，或是他們認識的人家，即使不在家裡，因為這些事情其實都是一樣的。首先，我想說，把孩子帶走。

保護好孩子。嗯。然後站起來反抗施虐者。站起來對那個人說，你離我遠一點。你離我的孩子遠一點。

And the abuser will always say, they're lying. I didn't do it. Don't believe them. Trust your gut and get out of the situation. Then find somebody you can that the both the child and the parent.

You both need somebody different to talk to. You I think that's a key thing. Cannot get past or through this without exposing it to air. You just have to to get it out of your head and get it said into words. Write it down.

寫日記。做點什麼來表達你的感受和憤怒。找個沙袋來發洩。因為如果你不這樣做，它會毒害你的生活。是的。

Yes. It's hard. It it's hard to talk about it. It's hard to move forward. It's you just wanna curl up in a ball and cover yourself up and hide and say no, no, no, no, no.

事情並沒有發生。但我的想法是這樣的。上帝允許這些事情發生在我們生命中，並改變我們。重要的是你如何應對。是的。

What attitude do you choose to have? Are you gonna be a victim? Are you gonna be sad and angry for the rest of your life? Or do you choose to be the survivor, the victor, the one who is going to help others. What's your purpose in life?

Because when something like this happens, your purpose changes. Your life path changes. And it's totally up to you how that path goes. Yes. Susan, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to come on and talk about this super heavy subject, and be willing to open up so publicly about it, in order to hopefully help other people who are where you are.

Yes. And I hope that this episode really does that for those people that are silently suffering as you have been for all these years. And hopefully, it moves them to do something better for themselves or their children. And, I I think that you are a brave woman, and, you deserve an honor medal. I can give you one virtually.

But, I I really think it's awesome that you came on here, and and, it took some bravery to for you to to to open up like that and put yourself out there like that. And but I know that you did it because you know that other people like you need that. They need to hear this. They need to know that it's not just They do need They need to know that. They're not alone.

And, this this there's too much of this going on. Our society is supposed to be all, evolved. Right. This cannot go on. We need to be join together and end this.

阿門。好了，再次感謝你們的到來。感謝你們的邀請。我們就到此為止吧。現在，讓我們進入一個轉換思維的時刻。

One of the things I said in today's episode is sometimes you can't see the things that are going on around you because you will have on red glasses, so you don't see the red flags. If you're in an abusive situation in your home, you may have on red glasses so you can't see the bigger picture things that are going on. If you really want to get out of that situation and you need help, please go to FatimaBay.com and go to the other help page. At the bottom of that page, if you live anywhere in The US, there are resources around you that are free that can help you. Now to the people that are listening who can identify with Susan, you are that parent.

我不在乎它是否發生在四、五十年前。如果你還沒有完全處理好它，它就還在那裡。它依然是你生活中的一部分。也許是時候採取行動了。永遠不嫌晚，也永遠不會太久。

Just start doing something about it. Start talking to someone. Start letting it out. Because as I said earlier, I promise you, if you have not yet gotten over it, you are still under it. And the longer you stay under it, the more buried it gets, but it's still affecting you.

Get some help. You can't change the past, but you can create a better future by dealing with it today. Start now. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast, please like, and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit fatimabay.com/podcast.

記住，轉變思維會帶來力量。請關注下週節目。