Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. Today, we have with us once again, Erica Bess. She is from Schenectady, New York.

She is an LMSW therapist. She specializes in trauma. But today, we're gonna talk about she's gonna talk about her religious confusion as a teen. Now I do wanna preface this with saying this episode is specifically for those who are seeking or in the process of deciding or making a decision about religiosity or religion or spirituality. For those who think that you don't need a spiritual connection, you may not identify with half of this conversation.

You're welcome to listen, but I'm just letting you know that right up front. How are you doing, Erica? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good.

As you know, I like to do. Let's dive right in. So you're the one that actually came to me with this this topic, and I thought it was an excellent idea. So tell us why you wanted to do this episode. I really wanted to do this episode because, this topic is not something that you hear a lot about.

And I feel like as a teen, I went through my own spiritual journey of trying to figure out what was the right religion to be a part of or what spiritual identity I wanted to be a part of. And I felt like because I was exposed to several of the different types of spirituality or religion, I didn't know where to I fit in. So I feel like that's a big part of trying to identify who you are as an individual while you're going through that phase of becoming being a teenager and then growing up to being, like, a young adult. It's an important part. Why why is it important?

I think it helps ground you as an individual. It helps, govern how you treat yourself and others, and I think that it gives you a greater purpose, as an individual and a spiritual connection with, God. Okay. So what is your spiritual identity now? Right now, I am a born again Christian.

Woo hoo. Alright. Let let me ask you this. So what made you arrive at that? Okay.

Well, so my mother is agnostic. So she doesn't really follow any religion Mhmm. And doesn't consider Jesus Christ as her lord and savior and always would say that she, believes in a higher power and the big bang theory, but didn't really wanna father follow any, organized religion. She was brought up Catholic and then kinda, like, went the exact opposite as she got became an adult. And then on my father's side, they were, part half of them were Catholic and half of them were Baptist.

So that's where I got, like, most of my foundation in, like, Christ. And, I used to go to Sunday school. I used to be, like, a really active part and member in the church because that was a big part on that side of the family. But I think having the foundation in it, it's probably what brought me back to it because I don't think if I had, never been exposed to it, that I would have been more open to it. But I'm not I'm not saying that I wouldn't necessarily, but I feel like having that foundation just kinda, like, brought it home for me.

Okay. Mhmm. What made you decide that Christianity was the way? I think once I sought out Christianity and Jesus and my own personal relationship with him, I think that that helped me to develop a sense of peace. And I knew that once I felt that peace, it was like, okay.

This is where I'm supposed to be. And also going through lots of trauma and processing, my personal experiences with different things. I think that that connection that I developed with him helped me get through that trauma, and that was enough for me to realize. Okay. Let me ask you this.

Mhmm. Should we just blindly follow what we're taught? Absolutely not. We need to question everything, find out things for ourselves, experience other religions, see if they fit, see if they don't fit, and come to going through different things to try and see if they fit, meaning that, you know, it'll lead you to the path of where it does fit. And that is a personal discovery and journey for each person.

It really is. I I I'm I'm gonna, pipe in here as as well. It's so important to not just follow what you're taught. Right. If you were brought up in the church for I'm using this as an example.

You're brought up in the church, and you decide to stick with Christianity. Stick with it because of a personal relationship with God and not just because you're taught some religious stuff in Sunday school. Exactly. That is not a firm foundation, and that is why people fail when they do that. If you were brought up Muslim and you went to the mosque and you want to you decide to follow Islam, do it because you feel a spiritual connection and you believe in the Quran, not just because you believe in an imam.

對。對於那些不知道伊瑪目是什麼的人來說，它就像是伊斯蘭教裡的牧師。它們不是一回事，但這是最能讓人理解的比喻。所以我們不應該盲目地遵循我們所學到的東西。我認為這樣做實際上非常危險。

Because if we just blindly follow what we're taught, very often, we're gonna fall off the cliff with everyone else. Right. Like, what if you're taught something that is demonic and you're taught to think that that is normal, and then you practice these, things that are actually inviting negative entities into your spirit and your soul, and you don't even know that it's wrong. So many people are involved in that. Yep.

And I I will also say because it's relevant to this conversation, I too am a born again Christian. And I believe in Jesus Christ and him, crucified, and you ain't changing my mind about that. However, the one thing I don't do is shove that down people's throat Right. Or, say you have to do that. You have to, you know, follow Jesus because I do and he's the only way.

對。你需要自己去發現與上帝的關係，而不是因為我告訴你就這麼做。而最好的方法就是去找他。去尋找他。去尋找，嗯。

Seek truth out. Yes. Seek truth out. And and I don't and I know everybody likes to say, well, everybody's got their own truth. Seek truth out for yourself Right.

不要滿足於現狀。沒錯。所以，去尋找真理吧。關於這一點，我只想說這麼多，因為如果你去尋找真理，你會開始把很多東西拋在一邊，然後意識到它們都是空的。嗯。

當然。我指的不僅僅是信仰我的宗教。我指的是，無論你是誰，都應遵循普遍的宗教信仰。是的。好的一點是，至少目前在美國，我們擁有選擇的自由。

So we can choose to be a Buddhist, to be a Christian, to be to follow Islam, to to follow, whatever. Mhmm. We can to Hinduism, whatever. We can make those choices here in this in this country. Mhmm.

I wouldn't have that choice since I was in Afghanistan. That's true. And many other places around the world. Right. You don't have those choices everywhere.

所以說得對。如果你知道，在美國和加拿大，也就是這部劇的目標受眾，那就好好利用你有選擇權這個事實吧。對。而且，你知道，即使你在一個被宗教強加於人的家庭長大，不管你信的是什麼，都要信奉它。對。

If you're going to follow it, follow it because you actually truly believe it's true and not just because I tell you it's true. Absolutely. That is so critical. I just had to add that in there. Don't follow a religion just because somebody tells you to, even if I tell you to.

Right. Seek it out for yourself because, otherwise, you're not really connected. Absolutely. Now let's discuss this, Erica. How can we know when we have found the right one?

The right religion. Well, my personal experience, I was, I think about 18 to 19. That was a difficult year of me trying to figure out, okay. Well, which religion should I follow? Because, we read in school the Bhagavad Gita, the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran, but as a clinical standpoint, but not as Can you say that first one again?

《薄伽梵歌》？是的。能告訴觀眾那是什麼嗎？好的。我相信它是佛教的。

好的。是的。這就像他們遵循的書，就像他們的聖經。好的。是的。

我接觸了很多宗教的思想觀念，然後我就想，好吧。既然有這麼多宗教，我怎麼知道我該信奉哪一個呢？然後我經歷了一場身分認同危機，幾乎要弄清楚哪個宗教才是適合我的。所以回答你的問題，我覺得當你對精神聯繫帶給你的一切感到平靜，對上帝感到平靜的時候，我想你就會意識到，好吧。就宗教而言，這對我來說是正確的，這樣你就知道你走在了正確的道路上。

So when you have a a greater sense of peace Yeah. About what you've chosen. Okay. Mhmm. And just my personal experience with that, because I have experienced, all types of different spiritualities.

I even, like, was looking into Buddhism at one point. One of my family members is Jewish, so I was, like, tapping into that. And I was like, you know what? And then it took me to get, I wanna say, all the way to mid thirties to realize, like, okay. I've seen all these things.

And at the end of the day, what was true for me was coming back to Christianity, and that's where I felt at peace. I think you just said a key factor there. Sometimes we have to experience before we can make a decision. Mhmm. And I'm not saying that you need to dip your toe in every religion in the world because that actually can cause more confusion than be helpful.

Yeah. Because when you lend yourself to different spiritual avenues, you're opening doors. So you gotta be mindful. Mhmm. And I don't care what religion you're talking about.

You just gotta be mindful, that we try to navigate with wisdom. However, you you're not going this is why I go back to that question that I asked earlier. Really, that question I asked earlier. It's so important that we don't just follow what we're taught. Right.

We need to emphasize it in question. I'm a Christian. Right. I'm a Christian. I don't care what church you were brought up in.

I I if you're gonna follow God and you're gonna follow Jesus in the Bible, do it because you believe in it. Do it because you study scripture for yourself. Do it because you have a personal you developed a personal relationship with God. Right. Absolutely aware of that.

Don't do it because somebody from a pulpit told you to. I'm I'm telling you that right now. And don't go putting on a show every Sunday, and you're not really living that life. You can go up and treat people like crap Monday through, Saturday, and then Sunday, you go and repent and not live like how you're supposed to as a Christian. And then it's like, okay.

Sunday wipes my sins clean and back to the BS on Monday again. Like, no. That's not how it works. I also think that there's many things about different religions that I actually like. Although I don't believe in those religions, I don't, follow them.

Okay. But something I like about Buddhism is some of the the, balanced discipline that it teaches. One of the things I like about Islam is the discipline and the respect that it teaches. Mhmm. And at its core, not some of the crap that some people have turned some of it into.

因為，就像基督教一樣，有很多人自稱是穆斯林，卻在傳授一些根本不屬於宗教根基的垃圾。但我喜歡它教導紀律，教導一種健全的品性，很多人確實從中找到平靜。絕對是如此。我不信奉這一點，因為我不相信它的其他部分。對。

I believe in Jesus Christ and him crucified. Mhmm. But there are there are bits and pieces of different religions that I'm like, I like that element of it. And some of you may be drawn to some of the elements of your religion. Right.

不同宗教之間也存在著類似的問題。我注意到一個共同的主題，尤其是在基督教以及其他類似的宗教中，那就是：己所不欲，勿施於人，愛你的鄰居，愛人，不傷害他人。我覺得這就是生活的原則。即使你還沒準備好接受宗教信仰，這種精神上的連結會讓你更接近上帝。我認為，實際上，正是這種精神上的連結會讓你做出那樣的行為。

Yeah. I do wanna say this as well. When it comes to because we talked about how do you know you found the right one. Right. I'm gonna answer that a little.

你提到了和平，這絕對是其中的要素。但我的答案更深刻一些，嗯。用這個比喻。好的。你的宗教就像一個烤麵包機。

如果你把烤麵包機插到有電的插座上，它就會運作。你會感覺到烤麵包機發出的熱度。你把麵包放進去，像是我喜歡英式鬆餅。所以你把英式鬆餅或華夫餅放進去，它就會按計劃工作。你會感覺到它發出的熱。

It's going to toast because it's connected to power. Right. If you put that same toaster into a dead outlet, you will not get anything toasted. You will not feel heat. You will not nothing will toast.

因為沒有插上電源，所以看不到任何光亮。它已經死了。是的。所以，當你看待宗教時，我不是泛泛而談，我只是泛泛而談，不要因為我是基督徒就接受這一點。當你看待宗教時，我希望大家能思考這一點。

Is there power in it? I don't mean is there, like, sunrays falling out of the sky. That's in cartoons and movies. Right. But, I mean, is it powerful?

它能改變你的人生嗎？它與你心靈相通嗎？沒錯。當你融入你的宗教信仰時，它是否能賦予你某種精神力量？嗯。

如果沒有，那你就處於盲點了。嗯。你得找個插座給你的烤麵包機插上。所以你就是烤麵包機。你沒問題。

對。但有時你插入的東西確實會出問題。確實如此。我喜歡這一點。我希望每個人都能思考這一點。

我不在乎你的背景。我不在乎你是信奉基督教、佛教或其他宗教。無論什麼宗教。每個人。當你審視自己想要進入的領域時，它是否蘊含著力量？

Mhmm. And I'm saying this as a Christian to other Christians. Well, let me say church folk. Right. Just because you go to a church doesn't mean you're plugged into anything.

You might just be plugged into religion only. I'm a say that again. You might be plugged into religion only. If your if your religion delivers a power source that you can plug into and it gives you life, you may have found the right one. Exactly.

所以我希望人們思考這個問題，因為大多數人都覺得，好吧，我必須信奉這個宗教，他們卻要遵守所有這些規章制度，因為每個宗教都令人困惑。每個宗教都有自己的規章制度。世界上每個宗教都有自己的規章制度。他們有自己的理論。他們有自己的生活原則。

對。就是這個意思。這沒什麼問題。我該怎麼做？我就是這麼困惑的。

是的。我心想，嗯，這句話說如果我不遵守，我就會下地獄。這句話說我是個嫉妒之神，我不希望你崇拜除了我之外的任何人。我心想，好吧。但到底是哪一句呢？

我當時就想，你知道，這真的很難。沒錯。所以，我想說的是，當你們，身為觀眾，如果你們想參與宗教，想做什麼，想建立精神聯繫，一定要有力量源泉，而不僅僅是規章制度。絕對是如此。不只是那些在精神上毫無意義的概念和想法，讓你在精神上仍然感到麻木。

如果你還是覺得精神上死氣沉沉，那你要嘛信仰錯了宗教，要嘛進了錯的教會。沒錯。所以，說真的。沒什麼大不了的。而且這真的很重要。

For real. You got to be connected to a power source. Right. And That feeds you. I will let y'all discover what that power source is for yourself, but Right.

Make sure you're you're you're tied to more than just religion. Now Yeah. I wanna break this down also. Religion can be a beautiful thing because as we just stated, it teaches principles. Right.

And it teaches discipline. No matter what kind of religion you have, well, most of them anyway, they teach some sort of discipline, which is beautiful. It's great. We need discipline in life to to succeed in anything and to be a good human race, honestly. Without discipline, we have chaos and craziness.

So that is something that's beautiful about many religions. Mhmm. But get past that to spiritual connection. That's what I wanna really kinda leave people with. Get past that to spiritual connection.

And now that I'm listening to you, I'm starting to realize that you can't have or really live by the religion without having that spiritual connection. I always separated spirituality and religion as two different entities, but it's like it's you can't have one without the other almost. Right. So yeah. Yeah.

So if you are following, you know, Buddhism Mhmm. And there's a lot of great discipline that it teaches. Right. And you can you could follow that that that discipline, and it will enhance parts of your life. That is absolutely true.

Discipline will enhance parts of your life. But, eventually, that won't be enough because newsflash y'all, we are created to be spiritual beings. I said that out loud. Yes. Dun dun dun.

No. It's it's not politically correct to say that, but I don't care. It's correct. Right. Right.

We we are created we we have you know, with spiritual emptiness when we're not spiritually connected, and that's many of the reason one of the reasons we do many foolish things that we do in life because we're trying to fulfill that. And we try to fill it with drugs, alcohol, men, sex, blah blah blah. Right. And there's a void, and no nothing can fill that, like, your spiritual connection to God. Yes.

Mhmm. So I really want all of you to think about that. What are you connected to? Not what church or what mosque or what temple you go to, but what are you connected to outside of them? Absolutely.

Because that's what matters. Not that that sense of, the thing I like about religious institutions is there's always a sense of community Mhmm. Which can be a good or a bad thing depending on how it's used or abused. But when it's used properly Right. It could be a beautiful thing.

You go to the the the mosque and you have a whole group of Muslim brothers and sisters that support you. They financially support you. They emotionally support you. And that is a beautiful thing. Community can be amazing, amazing thing.

絕對的。這是好事。但隨之而來的是虐待。我想把這個也寫進這集，因為這種事在宗教裡太常見了。嗯。

And notice I said religions plural because people think of this as the church, but it's hap it's it happens in Islam. It happens in it happens in in Buddhism, actually. It it it happens in any religion. Abuse. Let's break down that word for a second.

I may have said this in another episode, but abuse is actually a compound word. It is now a singular word in the in the American dictionary, but it really at its roots is a compound word, and it means abnormal use. When you are abusing something or someone you are abnormally using that person or thing. And that's why drug abuse is called drug abuse because there's an abnormal use for drugs. Right.

還有對宗教的不正常運用。飲酒是正常的，但也存在不正常的使用。對。所以，當你進入聖殿、教堂、清真寺，無論什麼地方時，無論去往哪個王國聚會所，都要確保你周圍的人都是正常地、有節制地使用宗教，而不是不正常地使用宗教的人，這樣你就不會成為下一個受害者，憎恨上帝和他們所代表的一切。事實上，他們的濫用行為恰恰證明他們沒有代表他們所宣揚的教義。

Okay. That part. That is so true. So so if you're you're listening, make sure. Mhmm.

這就是為什麼我自己會把教會和上帝區分開來，嗯。因為並不是每個在教堂裡站著的人都代表上帝。對。我是說，完全不代表。沒關係。

But that's not just true in in a church. Right. You know, it's true in any community of humans. Absolutely. Because we're all at the end of the day, we're all still human.

所以，各位聽眾朋友，你們自己也要確保把他們分開，確保你們之間有屬靈的聯繫，這樣，如果教會倒塌，如果聖殿倒塌，你們也不會隨之倒下。同意。因為如果你只和某個宗教團體或領袖有聯繫，他們倒下的時候你也會倒下。你和什麼有聯繫呢？我就不多說了。

哦，我也在想這個問題。我得道歉，因為《薄伽梵歌》是印度教的，我以為是佛教的。我只想為所有信奉印度教的人道歉。我的錯。這分數不錯。

沒有。不過謝謝你的糾正。謝謝你的糾正。確實如此。艾莉卡，作為一名治療師，如果我們遇到一個對宗教感到困惑的青少年，作為治療師，他們可以來找你嗎？

Absolutely. Are you gonna shove Jesus down their throat? I'm not shoving anything down their throat. It's shoving down positivity. Yes.

And and that's that's the thing is is I I I think it's so important to say that because, unfortunately, there are many, quote, unquote, Christians who do that. And that's what makes people just cringe when they hear that you're a born again Christian. Like, oh god. They're gonna shove Jesus down my throat and they're gonna, you know, be fake or whatever. No.

That's not true. There are some of us who are actually real. Right. Yeah. But any conversation that you bring to the table as a a client and working with me, it's all fair game.

Nothing's off the table. So whatever you're you're wanting to focus on in the session, if it's religious confusion or religious identity, anything can be said Yep. In the session. And and you guys, she Erica really is a a good therapist like that. She's Hey.

Particularly good with teens. That's good. I mean, she does she works with adults too, but she's particularly good with teens because she's raw and honest. And you could talk to her about anything, and she's not gonna look at you like you're crazy. Right.

Even if you are, she's gonna help you figure out you're crazy. Now, Erica, how can people find you? The empowertherapy.com. Right there on my website, you just send me a message, or you can, send a direct link to my email, and then you'll see it on the website. Alright.

嗯，Erica，謝謝你再來。各位，這絕對不是你們最後一次聽她說話。她可能還會再來四百一十一次。是的，是的。

I just made up a new number. It's so big. But this is not the last time you'll you'll hear her. And, and, you know, once again, thank you, Erica, for coming on and lending us your brains. Thank you so much for having me.

Appreciate it. And now for a mind shifting moment. I have a question for you. What is your spiritual life like? Do you even have one?

Are you the walking dead, or are you alive but barely? Or are you living and thriving spiritually? This question is not for you to answer to me, but for you to answer to you. And if you are spiritually dead, if you are the walking dead or barely spiritually alive, my next question is, what are you gonna do about it? Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast.

Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit fatimabay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.