Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome. Today, we have with us Joby Castilla. She lives in Upstate New York, and she has schizophrenia.

She also has complex post traumatic stress disorder and severe anxiety disorder. And the reason we're having this episode today is she Joby herself has actually mind shifted me. She just didn't know she was doing it at the time. We just had a real honest conversation, which basically led to talking about her schizophrenia. And, decided to have her on as a guest because she's the one person I could talk to about this who's not gonna get offended and be raw and honest.

And by the end of this session, you will probably love her as much as I do. But before we begin, I I wanna read to you guys some numbers, some numbers and some facts, cons concerning the topic that I think are important to remember. These do not all apply to Joby, but, they're important to remember when we're talking about this topic. So the first is that sixty seven percent of homeless people currently have some form of mental illness, while seventy seven percent were found to have experienced mental illness at least sometime during their lives. And this comes from The U US News and World Report.

The proportion of violent crime in society attributable to to schizophrenia consistently falls below ten percent. Comorbid substance abuse considerably increases this risk. And this comes from cambridge.org. Roughly fifty percent of individuals with severe mental disorders are affected by substance abuse. Thirty seven percent of alcohol abusers and fifty three percent of drug abusers also have at least one serious mental illness, and that comes from helpguide.org.

我把這些數字念給你們聽，是因為我希望你們在這次談話中記住這些事實，因為其中一些會與談話內容相關。喬比，你今天好嗎？我很好。謝謝你來。我非常感謝你願意來，坦誠地、坦率地談論自己，並進行這場我認為有必要的真誠對話。

So let's start off with I like as you know, I like to dive right into it. Mhmm. With schizophrenia, because we we mentioned the the different things that you deal with and you battle with daily. But with schizophrenia specifically, do you hear voices? I do.

It's it's always on every day. It's just there's always a a secondary conversation. Like, talking to you now, there's a conversation going on in there. Mhmm. Like Can you share with the audience what those conversations are like?

It's not like, when people say schizophrenia, you think, like, it's telling you to go out and do all these bad, evil, awful things. Mhmm. But that's not always the case. Mhmm. Like, for me right now, it's telling me that, you know, I need to go into my kitchen and I need to do, like, I'm in school, culinary school.

I need to go and do my homework. And when I'm doing my homework, I need to do my dishes. And when I'm doing those dishes, oh my god. I you know, I have to, you know, feed and water my dogs. And after I'm feeding and watering my dogs, I have to just sell my coffee pot.

好的。你知道，這只是一個持續不斷的過程，懂嗎？有些人會說，天哪。我也有這種情況。不是這樣的。

It's It's a higher level of it. It is. It's not an inner monologue. It's actual outside conversation going on inside your head, if that makes sense. Yeah.

So you you hear audible voices was basically it is it's it's racing thoughts, but it's racing thoughts turned into audible voices. Is am I saying that correctly? Yes. Yeah. Okay.

It's like I could I could almost, like, turn around expecting to see A person there. Standing there. Yes. Okay. But no nobody's there.

And thank you for explaining that. I asked you to explain it because I think we, you know, we hear that people hear voices all the time, and I have been guilty of making jokes about hearing voices, but I don't actually hear them. You know? I have inner dialogue all the time, but I don't know what it's like to live live with that. And I think it's important that people kinda have an understanding of what it's like, to be you.

And Yes. It's it's not always, like I said, awful or Mhmm. You know, glutton, you know, murder the world and burn them, put you on the forest, and it's not it's not always like that. Well, it's Thank you. I'm glad you you clarified that, because I do think that that is the image that people get primarily because of movies.

Mhmm. And maybe some things that have happened in society. But, again, as I mentioned in the, in the beginning with those numbers, that's a very small percentage. The 10% is not nothing, so we should pay attention to the 10%. But let's not forget the 90% is is basically what how I kinda see that.

Hallucinations come along with it for Oh. You know, a lot of people too. I've never had hallucinations. Okay. But hallucinations do come along with schizophrenia for a lot of people that do suffer with it.

好的。是的，那些是我們在電影裡看到的那種嗎？那些是我們在電影裡看到的說故事的那種。一定是的，對吧。不。

就我所知，我從未出現過幻覺，但你可能只是坐在那裡，看到某些東西，然後就開始失控。可能就這麼簡單。好吧。它就是這樣表現出來的。我覺得你從來沒有出現過這些幻覺很有意思。

Nope. But I'm very grateful for that. You are there now you're you're on here not as an expert, in the field. You're on here just as a person living with it, and that's the conversation we're having. But I just wanna ask your opinion.

Do you think that or maybe you perhaps you do know, how many people with schizophrenia do have delusions? I I have been hospitalized. I'm sorry. Hallucination is my word. I have been hospitalized.

嗯。因為我做過胃繞道手術。體重劇烈波動的時候，體內的化學物質就會失衡，所以需要檢查藥物水平等等。我的藥停了，我當時正在醫院照顧一個有幻覺的人。嗯。

我從未見過這樣的人，他們的情況很糟。真的很糟糕。太可怕了。所以，就像我說的，我非常非常慶幸自己沒有走極端。我的意思是，我已經接受了音頻部分。

I mean, it's been rough for me, but I'm very grateful that I don't have the the hallucinations. I've interestingly enough, what you just described to me with the voices, I have been told, by a person with bipolar that they experienced the same thing. And I know that you don't have bipolar, but I'm really more so saying this for the audience, that I personally was told by someone with bipolar that they experienced what you just described, which I didn't realize they were they were basically similar. From what I understand, bipolar is more inner dialogue as opposed to Oh, okay. Outer dialogue.

I'll I'll look. Like, you know, there are times where I'll look. You know? It'll be see if someone's there? Yeah.

哦，好的。不過，你知道，我會在廚房說，你好。好的。好的。這和她跟我描述的不一樣。

So I I get what you're saying. Hers is more inner dialogue. Yes. I'll know he'll be there, but sometimes, you know, just just once in a while, you kinda just gotta look over your shoulder. You know?

And I I do tell my therapist about it and Mhmm. You know, my provider, you know, who prescribes my meds and, you you know, and I I do keep right up on top of all of that. And if, you know, we suspect anything is off, we're so on top of that. I have wonderful, wonderful providers. And, we're I'm I'm in there getting my blood levels checked.

I'm glad. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit later in the conversation about your providers and medication and the importance of that. But I wanna, step back for a second. And one of the reasons and talk about why I'm having this on a podcast for teens. One of the numbers that I didn't add there because I didn't wanna oversaturate the beginning introduction with numbers, but there are, most mental illness major mental illnesses such as schizophrenia start to present themselves in people's teens.

所以我們現在進行這個對話是因為很多時候，它出現在青少年身上，也許有青少年在聽，他們可能會開始認同 Jovi 將要談論的一些事情，或者正在聽的父母、家人或朋友，你知道，他們正在識別周圍的事物。如果是這樣，希望在這次談話結束時，你不會認為它是一件需要面對和處理的壞事。因為你越早處理它，你就能處理得越好。那麼，Joby，話雖如此，你什麼時候發現你的症狀開始出現的？我被誤診了幾次，但我在二十多歲時就開始出現症狀了。

好的。但直到我三十多歲，我的天哪，我才找到合適的醫生，他們才幫我找到合適的醫生。很好。誤診是一件很嚴重的事情，而且經常發生。哦，確實如此。

你介意我們提一下你的年齡或年齡範圍嗎？哦，我51歲了。今年就52歲了。我覺得提一下這很重要，因為她20多歲是30年前的事了，而我們的社會已經不一樣了。你知道，就文化而言，我們和30年前根本不在同一個星球上。

So now people get diagnosed differently, but I do think misdiagnosis is still an issue Out of it. When it comes to mental health. You agree? I I definitely agree, especially when mental health is so all of these disorders are so they resemble each other so much Right. Right.

Yeah. That they always wanna start with, you know, the most common ones first. Like you said, you had somebody who has bipolar disorder describe to you almost in the same as what I said. Mhmm. And it's the difference.

Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are very extremely different things. There. Mhmm. And they treated me for bipolar disorder right off Joan. And lo and behold, none of the medications were working.

Right. Yeah. I wasn't getting any any quote, unquote better. Yeah. So, you know, all the medications, they were shoving down my throat.

Nothing was working. Right. I had numerous hospitalizations. Yeah. I had multiple suicide attempts.

My medications just weren't right. Oh, I'm sorry. That must have been too much for you. It was it was awful. You know, and I have children.

Right. So my children were witnessing this, and, you know, they had a mother who just didn't wanna live anymore. I was tired of fighting. Nobody was listening to me. Nobody, as far as I was concerned, was helping me.

You know? What made you get to the right providers? A friend of mine, who is a nurse said, why don't you talk to my provider? And I've been like, nobody listens. Why bother?

他說，跟她談談，試試看。我就照做了。她看了我的，你知道，我的病歷，我的病例紀錄。她說我們要從頭開始，要做血液檢查。我大概在六週內住院了兩次，每次都是因為換藥。

我討厭你總是聽到我說我討厭藥物，無法忍受你，這就是原因。而且，在那段時間裡，她幫我聯繫了一位創傷治療師，因為當你，你知道，陷入困境時，你不能只找一個普通的諮商師。有了創傷治療師和我現在的提供者，我的情況就變得很順利了。所以我聽說有人幫你聯絡了對的人。是的。

而且，是你朋友提起的，不是你？她看到我有點糾結。好的。好吧。所以我接下來要稍微打亂我本來想問你的問題的順序，不過，是的。

What would you say to a youth, young adult, hell, anybody, who is dealing with the the beginnings of grasping onto their mental health like you were now? What advice would you have for them? Be your own advocate. If you don't feel something is working, don't I mean, the medications don't work overnight. They don't.

But after a few weeks, if you don't feel like anything has changed or you feel worse, even hell, if you don't if you still feel off while you're trying these meds, reach out because a lot of these medications come with that that warning on them. They could cause suicidal ideation. All these medicines are out there to help you can make it worse. Right. And it you know, parents, watch your kids.

If if you notice your child is becoming more withdrawn, watch your child. They're telling you they're going to weigh down, lock your child. Yeah. You're right. You're right.

正如我一開始提到的，您患有多種精神疾病，不僅僅是精神分裂症。請您跟聽眾解釋一下，身患多種精神疾病是什麼感覺，您是如何應對的？哦，太好了。每個人都應該至少去看看，至少去看一次。

At least one mental illness? Okay. That sounds like Kmart. At Walmart. Blue yeah.

With Kmart blue light special. People are probably young for that. I I mentioned Kmart because they're not open anymore, so nobody can come after me for that. I don't like a blue light special. Right.

Right. Some of the teenagers probably don't even know what that is. I know. That's what I'm saying. That thing I just dated myself horribly right there.

You know, in the morning, you know, I my meds are in my system, so, you know, you know, it it I'm consistent with them. But when I wake up in the morning, we will throw ADHD in it or two. Yeah. I wouldn't really that's more a neurodivergent thing as opposed to a a mental health. But when I wake up in the morning, I can definitely feel it.

You know, I I take medication for anxiety. At any given point in time, you know, that could affect me. So that's always that's always a, you know, a fun thing. But it just it it makes life interesting because you never know when it's gonna affect you. But I don't let it stop me from doing anything.

Let's talk about that because that is something I find very fascinating about you, Joby. I haven't even given the audience a clue. So since you were since you were diagnosed with all this mental illness, that means that you just are crazy and you can't do anything for the rest of your life. You just have to sit there and you have to sit there and take government money and just smoke and drink and fart all day. Right?

Oh, absolutely. Tell the audience, what have you done with yourself? I graduated high school, of course. Mhmm. And I went on to college.

I have a horticulture degree. I have competed in the Boston Flower Show. I placed fork in The United States for floral design. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I have I have a cosmetology license.

我目前正在攻讀烹飪藝術學位。是的。我做過園林設計。我什麼都不做。我太喜歡你這一點了。

你們做任何事，我都不會去嘗試。我喜歡你們這一點。我現在和觀眾說話越多，對喬比了解得越多，一開始我就越覺得她只是一個來自鄉下的瘋女人。但我對喬比了解得越多，越了解她，了解她生活中的掙扎、她處理的事情以及她處理生活的方式，我就越發敬佩她。

She's dealt with stuff that I've never even come close to having to deal with, yet she still comes out on top and smiles and moves forward and marches on anyway. And I love the fact that she has all these issues, mental issues, but she doesn't let it let it stop her from getting multiple degrees, you know, multiple multiple degrees and working on another one. And she does have this go get them, you know, sort of personality. Now that is her personality. Personality is to and most people don't think of it this way, but it is true.

性格和疾病是兩碼事，我認為喬比就是一個很好的例子。她擁有強烈的意願、意志和決心，去做任何她想做的事情，不讓這些事情阻礙她。而且她必須面對我們其他人不需要面對的事情。她服用我們不需要的藥物。她必須做一些我們其他人不需要做的事情來讓自己平靜下來。

But those are how she takes care of herself so that she can accomplish what she wants to do. There are times like, I I told you before this started, is there maybe a point in time where, you know, I'll signal you. We might have to stop recording for a minute where I have to, you know, I may have to gather myself together for a minute. But, like I said, I I never know when it'll happen or when it won't. You know, my what I have a service dog.

She may come and alert me because she'll know before I do if I'm gonna have a, you know, an anxiety attack. And I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. You know? It just you just you just can't.

You you can't I mean, there was a period of time, about three years where I didn't leave my house. I was scared to leave my house. Where did that get me? Nothing. I sat here and did absolutely nothing.

後來，我們共同的一位熟人讓我意識到了這一點，於是就有了今天的會面。嗯，我很高興你今天能來。你也向我們敞開心扉，講述了你的一些掙扎和正在處理的事情。但我認為，同樣重要的是，人們應該要理解，我們做不到的事情，有些或許是真的，但有時我們需要轉變方向，專注於我們能做的事情。如果我們下定決心，你就是一個例子，如果我們下定決心，我們就能一起克服困難，而不是一直被困難壓著。

Yeah. Under it. And it it's so cliche. Never say never. You know?

Oh, well, where there's a will, there's a way. It's true. It's true. It's so true. It really is.

It it it really is. So for the audience, what would you say I want you to talk to a couple different people. Let's talk to the people who are around people like you right now, and they have youth, teenagers or young adults, friends, family, relatives, whatever, classmates, that they they can see something peeking up, and they just don't know what to do about it or how to handle it. What advice do you have for those people? A younger person, like, high school age.

It comes with such a stigma. Amazing, especially with everything that's going on in the world, especially in the schools and now Yeah. With all the violence in the schools, you're you're gonna get labeled. You know? All these kids are so scared of that, and they're gonna lose friends.

或者你知道嗎？那他們真的真的不是你的朋友。就這麼簡單。我同意。但是，你知道，還是去找你的父母吧。

Reach reach out. There's so many people to talk to that will listen, and they'll help navigate you through this. Not everybody is against you. Not everybody is against you. You can walk just about anybody, literally anybody, and talk to them.

Where there are a lot of people who would turn their back, there's probably twice as many that are willing to help. I know you're gonna laugh at this. We, a friend of mine and myself went and we bagged lemons, sugar, and a tiny bottle of water, and we put on songs that said life. And we were handing these little baggies out. Think about it.

If life hands you lemons, what do you do? We handed you the means. We handed you the means to make lemon. That's cute. So there's always a spin on it.

But the point is, you you just you there's always somebody out there who's willing to help you or at least willing to, you know, make you look at the other you know? There's always another way to look at things. Right. Now what would you say to those who are the parents or the friends of someone having mental illness right now or dealing with it or maybe it's just starting to pipe up and they're just starting to see it? If you know notice something is off, no matter how small it is, if your child or your friend or your relative is acting a little more crunchy than usual, a little more, recluse, like, you know, pulled back, a little a little more, out there, like, more, what I'm trying to use, not aggressive.

I don't mean aggressive. Like, outwardly social, watch them. Because if it's, like, an abnormal behavior in any way, watch it. Because and maybe it's just, you know, a fluke, maybe not. If it persists, it could be a sign, especially with schizophrenia will pop up, especially in young men and the teens into the twenties.

With women, it's generally the later teens into, like, the thirties. It it varies. It it usually affect, men sooner than women. Yeah. I remember you telling me that.

Usually, women get all the fun stuff first. We get all the fun stuff first. But not We get all the fun stuff. Will affect, a man a young man first. But just just watch them.

And like I said, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, ADHD, all three of them have similar they all present in a similar fashion. Okay. That's important to know. It's I think the key thing you said, and I wanna point this out to the audience because I think, you know, in helping people come up with solutions or trying to help people who maybe are where you were or around where you were, Joby said a key thing, persistence. So just because they're someone's having a bad day doesn't automatically mean you're crazy.

我們需要你註冊一些東西。沒有。但如果她提到的一些細節持續存在，那可能是個線索。明白嗎？

And if you know somebody Right. Right. I bad days too. Now people that know me, okay, and they know that I take medication, And the worst thing you can say to anybody, if they're having a bad day, don't ever say to somebody, did you take your medication? Oh, girl.

We will turn on you. We we will show you. Oh, really? Don't ever ask anybody that. So that's probably the worst thing you can say to anybody.

Oh, it does? Is is it because it comes across as condescending? Yeah. So you want me to show you what I'll act like if I don't take it? That's always why I come back to that.

I'll show you. It's like, no. I'm about to kill you now. So do so noted, I will not ask anyone if they took their medication unless I'm being sarcastic. Say that to somebody.

No one doesn't take medication. They don't get the same response. People get really upset with that. Oh. It'll look them at your side.

哦，好的。好的。嗯，知道了這一點很好，因為我根本沒想到這一點。對於任何患有精神疾病的人來說，無論你是否知情，如果你問別人這個問題，都會非常非常冒犯。最後還有一件事。

I know that typically if you tell someone, hey. I'm schizophrenic, or, hey. I have this or that mental illness. People's responses are usually not positive. How can we and for a person who's never dealt with someone with with any kind of mental illness at all, it can be it takes you a moment to process the information.

So it can it can take you back like, oh, I need to be scared of this person. I need I mean, people really think that think that way. Whether they should or not, doesn't matter. They do. How can that person better handle their response to you?

As you will know. I'm really open about it, because I look at it this way. Mhmm. It may it it's part of me. It's who I am.

You have questions to ask me. Right. Right. I'm not ashamed of it. And that's what I did in the conversation.

The reason we're having this episode, and I I reached out to Joby because it was a couple of years ago at this point, but she just was honest with me. And I, just in a nonjudgmental manner, was just asking a ton of questions like a curious little kid, And she answered all of them with patience and honesty, and it it really did help me to have more compassion I mean, it's not and understanding instead of judgment. Some people get really touched about it. In your situation. Feel like you're trying to pry.

But, like, how you approached me about it wasn't like, oh, so does that mean, like, you know, you're you're gonna go out and you're you're gonna, you know, kill everybody and, you know, light up the world? You know, it's it's not like that. Just because somebody has a mental health illness doesn't mean that we're bad people. It's a chemical imbalance. It's not anything that we created.

It's just the way our body works. Right. We're lacking something. You know, our body doesn't produce something the right way or overproduces something. You know?

It's not anything that we did. I mean, do you think I wanted to be this one? Absolutely not. But No. No.

And the thing is, Jobe is crazy even without her mental illness. You all need to know her. Her personality well, you can say the same thing about me. Her personality is just she's adventurous. She's gonna go out there and do whatever she wants, and she's gonna tell it like it is.

But these are the thing these are the the the attributes of her personality and nothing to do with her mental illness. Her mental illness is just on top of that. But those are things that that I that I like about her. But I I Yeah. I just thank you so much, Jovi, for coming on, and I really appreciate your honesty.

And I'm hoping that those of you listening have have your have had your mind shifted even if just a little bit to, you know, a person with a little more compassion and understanding than just being scared. Just being scared of the unknown. Just because someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they're gonna chop up your family or Nope. Shoot up them all or whatever. Sometimes they're dealing with more than you can handle.

差不多就是這樣了。我就不多說了。我的意思是，我們不是壞人。不。我覺得世界上有很多壞人。

他們有些人一直這樣做，有些人沒有。這完全是另一個問題。是的，你說得對。但你不會因為一個人有精神疾病就認為他不好。

And and I I really appreciate those of you who I've had personal conversations with, that have shared their mental illness with me because people just still need to share personal things with me all the time. But people have shared things with me that have given me insight into what they deal with, and I I see that as, wow. I don't even have to deal with that, yet you are functioning, and you were doing really honestly more than most, in dealing with all of this. To me, I think that makes you a badass, and I have a lot of respect for you just knowing all of your details. So thank you for coming on, and my hopes are that somebody listening right now who's maybe beginning to struggle with mental illness, be honest about it and get the help you need because some of us are more interested in understanding and helping than judging.

More than willing to help. It just like me, if anybody were to ever approach me, I would take you by the hand and, you know, be like, oh, this is where we need to start and and go from there. You know? And a lot of a lot of parents will do that for their their child. It it's just it's it's just the way it is.

You know? I have children that have mental health issues. It's just what you do for your child. And, you know, with me having a mental health disorder, I can spot it from a mile away in my own children. You know?

So as soon as it presented, boy, was I on top of it with them because it was not gonna escalate. I refused. And, you know, it was hard for them to accept, but, you know, once they got on board and I'm I'm very happy to say my children are very diligent, and they are very productive members of society. That is awesome. Right there.

太棒了！謝謝你，喬布。現在來點開腦洞。正如你在今天的節目中聽到的，我們談到了精神疾病。尤其是精神分裂症，人們往往對它感到恐懼，並且會為此考慮很多事情。

Oh, and they're just crazy. Well, some of those quote unquote crazy people are dealing with things that you're not. Guess what? They're people too. But let's take this thought beyond just schizophrenia and mental illness.

You don't know what people are dealing with. There are people around you right now who struggle just to survive and be, quote, unquote, normal on a daily basis. I wanna leave you with this thought. Take the time to try to understand. Make a strong effort at trying to understand people instead of just judging them.

It really matters. It really matters. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast.

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