歡迎收聽《思維轉換力量播客》，這是一個面向青少年及其相關成年人的節目，我們將在這裡進行坦誠而直接的對話。我是主持人法蒂瑪貝，思維轉換專家。歡迎大家收聽。今天我們邀請到的是來自新澤西州的米拉·沙阿。

她現在16歲，今年九月就要升上高中三年級了。對於所有未來的聽眾來說，現在是2024年，而正是她主動聯絡我，邀請我來做播客。那麼，米拉，跟我們說，你為什麼想來參加今天的節目？好的。謝謝你。

所以我想上這個節目的主要原因是，在我身邊，我看到了這種對效率的痴迷，說實話，我覺得我們真的需要注意。例如，人們總是在競爭，想要做到最好，想要做得更多。例如，在我讀的高中，大家都想考常春藤盟校，孩子們的人生軌跡都圍繞著如何從小學開始就打造完美的履歷。我認識一個五年級的學生正在準備SAT考試，說實話，我覺得這太瘋狂了。這根本不是你該有的生活方式。

And scientifically, it's taking a huge toll. So number one, I think people are getting almost no sleep. Like, personally, at the beginning of sophomore year, I was averaging, like, three hours of sleep, and I honestly had to kind of reframe that. But kids are around me are just surviving on coffee, energy drinks, and this idea of taking breaks and getting sleep has just, like, constantly gone away. On top of that, you're seeing skyrocketing anxiety and depression rates.

我甚至讀過一項研究，我認為它把過度的出類拔萃的壓力與貧困等其他損害青少年福祉的因素並列。所以，顯然，這種說法是錯誤的，我認為這一切都源自於父母壓力、同儕壓力和社會壓力，我真的認為我們需要重新審視這些壓力。好吧。嗯，這確實有點拗口。我完全同意你的觀點，因為我也親眼目睹了這一切。

我是個成年人，所以我對事物的看法和你這樣的親身經歷者略有不同。但我認為，讓觀眾聽到像你這樣的人的聲音很重要，你實際上正處於我們創造的、並且正在使之變得更糟的這種可怕文化之中。讓我換個話題，問你另一個問題。我們真的沒有過渡。我只想問你這個問題。

從你的角度來看，身為一個16歲的年輕人，目前正處於這種有害的生產力文化中，你認為十年後你們這一代會是什麼樣子？是的。所以十年後，我認為肯定會有一些人取得非凡的成就，但我認為我們大多數人都會精疲力竭，感到不滿。這聽起來可能有點悲觀，但如果你看看現在的企業界，你會看到有多少人真正享受自己正在做的事情？而這種現像其實就在我們這些孩子身上發生過。

There's so much pressure to just make a million dollars as soon as you get out of college rather than, like, actually pursuing something you like. And, obviously, money is important, but when that becomes your only motivation, you're suddenly not going to be happy, and you're never going to find something that satisfies you. And on top of that, I don't think we, have this culture of taking breaks and taking time for yourself anymore, and that's just gonna contribute to so many kids being burned out. Now you sure you're 16? Because right now, you sound like more mature than half the adults right now.

但說真的。我不在乎別人怎麼說，女孩。你長大了。你，你，你，你是一個百分之百的人，對吧？再說一遍，我現在是在跟觀眾說話。

Listen to this from a 16 year old because there's adults who have been screaming from the mountain top some of the stuff she's saying right now, but this is from a 16 year old who clearly is seeing the same things. And, it's not good. I mean, we know in this country I don't have numbers in front of me right now, but we know that, you know, suicide is up high. This ties into this topic because one of the reasons suicide is high and lots of other mental health issues are so high is because of the culture that we are raising people in, the pressure that we're putting people on. Don't you agree?

是的。說實話，我覺得你的觀點很有道理，因為我覺得把孩子逼到這種崩潰的邊緣，就會出現很多心理健康問題。我覺得我們是時候開始解決根本問題了，例如壓力之類的，而不是試圖敷衍了事地敷衍了事，例如「嘿，如果你有壓力，就去找幾個人傾訴吧」。我們為什麼不從根本解決孩子壓力大的原因呢？

Because we really need to change the culture we live we're living in. Mic drop. Yes, girl. Absolutely. Absolutely.

It goes to what I say a lot. I don't I say it sometimes on this podcast, but in my as the mind shifter, you know, is my own, I say a lot. I talk a lot about dealing with the issues. And a lot of times, we are, I'm gonna give this analogy, you know, based on what you just said. When you have a weed, a weed, you can cut off the head of a weed, it's gonna grow back.

Right? And a lot of times, we're cutting off the heads of weeds. And okay. It was it was leaning to the left before. We cut it off, and now it's leaning to the right.

We cut it off, and now it's leaning north. We cut it off, and now it's leaning south. Alright. So no matter what we do, it's growing back because we haven't taken it out by its root. If you wanna get rid of a weed, you never just cut it.

If you wanna get rid of it permanently, you have to, you know, rip it out by its roots. And a lot of times, we are, you know, we're giving a baby a pacifier instead of the milk that he needs. And so we've talked a little bit about the problem. So coming from you as a 16 year old who's currently in our systems, what do you see as the solution? And I know it's multifaceted.

那麼，您認為成年人能提供什麼解決方案呢？是的。所以我認為很大程度是一種思維轉變，一種重新建構你對生產力的看法的方式。因為生產力可以是諸如休息和留出時間給自己之類的事情。所有這些都有助於實現成功的理念。

但是，b，你需要重新思考一下你希望孩子做什麼。大多數成年人肯定只是希望孩子快樂，但這並非來自於23歲就能找到年薪六位數的工作。快樂來自於做你真正喜歡的事情，並確保你在23歲找到工作時不會精疲力竭，因為這一切都很重要。現在，我真心希望成年人們知道，這些事情確實會造成負面影響。我們已經討論過心理健康方面的影響，但讓我們更深入地探討一下。

Right? So a lot of times, I think adults talk about things like social media. Right? Oh my gosh. Social media is ruining kids' lives, and I completely agree.

But why are kids turning to social media? Well, it's a numbing mechanism from when you're literally on the edge of collapse. So I think, again, it just comes to this idea of adults, please know this is real, and please know that we have to address the root. And please know that there are ways that you can reframe this idea of productivity and success. Wow.

You just said a whole a whole lot, and you are you're oh, wow. You're so right. How we see success is a large part of why we're failing as a nation in many fronts. And you're right. Success is more than just a dollar amount in a fancy car.

你知道嗎？很多人有這種病，然後自殺，最後染上毒癮。為什麼戒毒中心裡有這麼多有錢人？我的意思是，人們不會真正考慮這個問題，因為你不是富人，因為你並沒有真正解決問題。錢並不能解決很多問題。

It does. It does not solve all things. Yeah. And, it doesn't make you happy at the end of the day. It'll make you happy for about twenty five minutes.

After that, you feel empty because all you did was get stuff and fake people. You know? So for the adults who hear what you're saying and maybe say, okay. Well, what can I do about it? What do you what do you have to say to them?

Well, what you can do about it is not put that pressure and have those conversations with your kids. Like, when your kids think that you expect them to get into an Ivy League school, they're gonna push themselves so hard to get into the Ivy League school because if anything, they care about your validation, and they care about this. So if you can start having these conversations from the time that kids are young, like, going to a small college is okay. Not having a perfect resume is okay. Living your childhood and actually being a kid is okay.

I think those conversations can really make a difference. I'm gonna add to that. I completely agree. I think that it's important to add to, speak the balance to that. Not because anything you said was wrong, but because I know that some people take things out of context.

So with that, what me and I know, Meeira, you can agree with me. What Meeira is not saying is that we should just be a free for all, and there should be no discipline and no goals and no structure at all. Because some people will take what you just said out of context and take it that way even though that's not what you're saying at all. That's not I just wanted to emphasize that's not what me are saying, and there has to be balance with all of that. Yes.

Absolutely. We want our kids to do the best. We want our kids to be the best. We want them to have status. We want them to feel accomplished, but at what cost?

Yeah. Hard work is so important, but it's not going to be hard work till the point of collapse. Yes. Do you hear that, adults? Because some of y'all adults are over 30, and you still haven't learned this lesson that this 16 year old understands right now.

當你看著你周圍的朋友，不只是你的朋友，還有你的同齡人，你認為你從他們身上看到的最重要的東西是什麼？讓我換個說法。當你看著周圍的同齡人，你認為他們會走向何方？當你看著你的同齡人時，你認為接下來會發生什麼？說實話，崩潰。

And I know this speaking from experience. When you push yourself so hard and you don't let yourself stop and you just keep doing more and more and more, you're going to collapse. And I know so many people have this idea that, like, okay. I'll push through it in high school, or I'll push through it for these next ten years, and then it'll be great. It's it'll all be worth it.

如果我能得到那份令人羨慕的工作，所有的痛苦都是值得的。問題是，這些痛苦並不值得，因為所有這些事情都會對健康、精神產生長期影響，最終會導致倦怠。說實話，我看到我的同齡人也正走向這個境地。這對我們所有人都不利，因為更健康的人才能創造更健康的社會。而精神崩潰的人只會創造一個支離破碎的社會，而我們現在正生活在這樣的社會裡。

你有什麼想對你的同齡人說的話嗎？是的。我覺得這跟我剛才說的很像，但為了考上頂尖大學而拼盡全力、不眠不休，如果到大學的時候你身心俱疲，那就太不值得了。真的不值得。所以我覺得我們需要告訴彼此，你們的人生還有很長的路要走。

And, honestly, like, the college you get into, the resume you have isn't going to be the end all be all. Sure. Working hard is so important, and doing the best you can is so important. But if you're going to just keep pushing yourself, it's not going to be worth it. So I'd urge my peers to kind of take a step back and look at how they, a, prioritize things around them.

Maybe pick a few things that you really wanna work towards, and then take your other time and take it for yourself. Take breaks, have fun, kind of live your life. Kind of achieving that balance can be so important, and make sure that you don't reach that point of total collapse. I just thought of another analogy of what you said. You said people are gonna collapse, and it doesn't matter that you accomplish all this stuff on paper by the time you're 23 if you're barely alive too.

Appreciate it. And I'm rewording what you said. It's kind of like it's kinda like, yes. I made it across the finish line with my car, but it has no wheels left. The engine is now gone.

You know, everything broke down. So now that I made it to the town, I can't go anywhere in the town. Yeah. Because I overran my car before I got there instead of taking breaks and doing it in a balanced way. I completely agree with you, and I'm really glad that you brought up this this topic.

What else do you wanna say to the audience? Yeah. I think we just need to take a step back and address a couple things. One, suffering isn't worth it when you're gonna collapse. I think that's the main point.

第二，我們需要保持平衡。第三，這些事情正在造成負面影響。我覺得周圍有很多負面的污名，例如，哦，沒關係。心理健康沒那麼糟。一切都會好起來的。

You know? Working hard comes above all. But it really does take a toll. And if you just look at the research, you'll see the devastating effects. So I really want everyone to just take a step back, look at what you're trying to do right now, and see how maybe you can reprioritize.

無論是大人還是孩子，你們該如何平衡彼此不同的優先事項，找到既能努力工作，又能抽出時間給自己的方法？你會說我們真正需要的是文化上的轉變嗎？是的。百分之百。我們生活在一個沉迷於生產力的社會。

It's an addiction to the point where, like, we can't stop ourselves. That needs to change. How do we change it? Yeah. Just those conversations.

我覺得情況就是這樣，哦，好吧，我們該如何改變呢？這個世界不是靠生產力運作的嗎？但如果你願意站起來，說，看，我要去做我的工作，我要把它做完，但我也需要一個小時的休息時間。這些事情是可以平衡的，而且，說實話，當你休息的時候，你也會更有效率。

就像，科學證明你會做得更好。所以我認為，當我們進行這些討論時，好的。休息很重要。不要給自己太大壓力，讓自己徹底崩潰，這很重要。我們開始讓這一切成為常態，而不是像學校裡那樣，每張海報都說，要竭盡全力，直到成功。

Like, success is the best thing in the world. Reframe that ideology and make it so that kids nowadays know because the kids are going to be the future of this country. And if we have those conversations with our kids, we can actually change the way we have culture right now. So some of it some of the conversation needs to come from parents. Yeah.

I think part of the solution is for some of the quote, unquote, adults who are running things need to listen to you. They need to listen to people like you who are in the system, who are in the process of of going through these systems that this culture that we've created and not just shoving you off because, oh, you're young and dumb. You don't know nothing. Yeah. Because there are adults who have that attitude, which is real stupid.

I'm sorry. But with adults who have that attitude, I question your intelligence because you just that means that you you have not even opened your eyeballs to pay attention to what's around you. I do think part of the solution is getting the adults who are creating these systems to change their mindset. But let's, like, dive a little deeper into a subtopic off of that. Let's talk about college.

在美國，我們被教導大學是人生的終極目標，也是通往成功的唯一途徑。如果你不上大學，你就是個失敗者。你不會成功，也不會賺很多錢。而我在這裡要告訴你，這完全是一派胡言。

It really is. It is total bullshit. I have had people on the show talking about it because it is while college is necessary for particular careers, you wanna be a doctor, you wanna be a lawyer, you wanna be, you know, almost any kind of scientist, you do need a college degree, and I completely agree with that because the level of education needed for those fields is very vast. And you can make good money in those fields. However, maybe you were good with your hands and you wanna be a mechanic.

也許你想成為一名理髮師。你可能擁有一家理髮店，比工程師賺得更多。你可能會成為一名理髮師，你知道，成為一名明星的髮型師，比大多數擁有碩士學位的同齡人賺得更多。這是事實。確實會發生。

You know, we we it's important that we as adults make sure that we're letting you guys know that you need to think outside of the that box. Because for generations now, it's been driven into us, nailed into our us that, you know, college is the only way. College, college, college. But that's not true. College is the way for certain careers.

I completely agree. And if you're not sure, you're better to be more educated than less. But if you are sure, go for what you're sure for. And I do think that that's part of the pressure, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Mira. I do think that that's part of the pressure that some youth are feeling, because the parents still are of that brainwashed mindset that and I do call it a brainwashed mindset that college is the only way.

Yeah. I definitely agree. And I think there's been a devaluation of a lot of careers. But if you take a step back, these careers are the ones that are running the world. As much as we need our doctors and we need our lawyers Yep.

是的。誰的車壞了之後不會去找當地的機修廠呢？誰不會每隔幾個月就去理髮店呢？我們需要這些工作，它們很重要。除此之外，當然，大學也很重要，我知道很多家長都希望孩子上大學。

But why do you want them to all go to MIT and Harvard? There are so many smaller schools out there, which I don't have anything against you if you go to MIT or Harvard. They're definitely fantastic schools. But those smaller schools, you can still get a good job. You can still be happy.

You can still have an amazing environment. You don't need to go to these Ivy League. Like, honestly, they're just trying to make money off of you. Like, they're making tons of profit. Right.

你說得對。除了我們每個人需要去往何處的線性定義之外，還有很多其他的事情。我還要補充一點，最近聽到了一份報告。我在某個地方看過。我不記得在哪裡了，但我希望我記得在哪裡，這樣我現在就可以在廣播裡說出來。

But, it's a it's an actual fact, and you can look it up. More and more companies are caring less and less where you went to school. Like, it used to be that, oh, you're Harvard. Well, I'm gonna put you at the top of my my candidates. A lot of them are like, you have a degree.

你知道些什麼嗎？好的。我不在乎你在哪裡學的。現在有很多人，而且不斷成長，還是有人會覺得，你上過哈佛、麻省理工學院之類的學校，真是太厲害了。但在職場上，越來越多的人不再在乎這些，因為他們開始意識到這些是多麼不重要，多麼不重要，多麼不成立。

We don't we we need to think about this as a country and as a people. Why do we think that certain colleges are better than others? Why do we think college necessary? Because those who own it have taught us to think that way so they can make money off of us. Duh.

Like you just said. Am I right? Yes. For sure. And if you look at the stats, I think I read this New York Times article.

But, like, the percentage of people who are in the top 1% who are going to the Ivy Leagues compared to, like, the working class, It is a question of money, and I'm not devaluing the people who do go to these fantastic colleges because I know they're, like, brilliant individuals. But it isn't everything, and it doesn't represent who you are. You can be so much more than just a school title. Right. And it's more important that you have understanding than just, education on paper because I have on more than one occasion, I have been promoted into positions for which I did not have the accreditation for.

Yeah. There's a phrase just learn through experience. Yeah. And I've also, I'll give you an example. There was a few years ago, when I worked at it I won't say where I worked because I'll I'll just because that's not the point.

I worked at a particular place, and there was this person that had two master's degree. I got promoted over her, and she got demoted. Oh my god. And I don't have two master's degrees. So, you know, it it it wasn't a matter of, you know, what she had on paper, what I had on paper.

關鍵在於我有技能，有意志力，他們能看到我做到。而且我贏得了我們合作者的尊重。這才是關鍵。你知道，說到底，這才是最重要的。我這麼說是因為，如果你現在是個青少年，你一定也承受著梅拉所說的壓力。

I want you to know that that it's coming from coming from an adult. I can tell you that the world that you're growing up in is changing, and some of what your parents think is necessary. Some of it's correct. Some of it's old school and not true anymore. So I would advise for you as a teenager who's looking into your career, discover what the trends are for yourself so that you could put yourself in the right place and not be under undue pressure to go nowhere and be unhappy.

Mhmm. Is there anything else you wanna say to the audience? Honestly, the last thing I can think of is you've asked me what I think we can change in adult students, and I think there's also a shift that we do need in the education system itself because a lot of that pressure is coming from it. Like, if you look at the stats again, like, our education system was designed for industrial America decades ago. It doesn't apply to the world we live in.

And I think there's this overwhelming ideology of pushing kids in one direction even within our schools, but there's so many things that I think we can encourage. Like vocational schools, I'm seeing an increase of that, which is amazing because it allows kids to take another path. Right. But, also, having kids letting kids have more choice as they reach older and older years over what kind of classes they're taking, that can allow them to pursue their passion without feeling the pressure. Like, oh, I gotta take, like, this certain math class in, like, my senior year.

Having that choice, obviously, granted that you meet certain requirements and you do work hard and you keep up your grades, I think that can really help alleviate some of the pressure we're seeing today. I I wanna add one more thing to that. And, again, I'm talking to the teens. Depending every state that in in The United States and Canada, because this is for The US and Canada, all of our school systems are not the same. And because each state and each providence area, they can do their own things.

So sometimes the education in Mississippi, for example, very different than education in New York, which is probably different than education in Florida. You know, they they're because we can create our own rules, so to speak. Keep in mind, our education system is not created for everyone. Ideally, people say it's supposed to be blah blah blah, just just lip service, really. But in reality, our education system, traditionally speaking, anyway, is really only set up for, like, one type of learning, which doesn't apply to at least half of society.

How's that working out? It's not. Our numbers are dropping. In first world countries, we're at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to education, when it comes to science, when it comes to technology, and not in every way, but in many ways. Yes.

And that's bad. You know? And I just want to say that to any youthful any teenagers listening, keep in mind that our education system, it may not be built for you. Don't feel stupid if it's not. Sometimes it's a system that's stupid, not you.

是的。我就就此結束吧。不過，謝謝你，米拉，來參加節目。我真的很享受和你聊天，無論是在節目上還是在節目外。你的心智絕對成熟了。

I'm I'm very serious. You are mentally you are more mature than a lot of adults that I know, who don't even get some of the stuff that you're already seeing. So please continue to grow, and and continue to speak out and speak up, because some of us are actually listening. Thank you so much. And now for a mind shifting moment.

今天我想在你們腦海裡種下一顆思考的種子。各位正在聽的成年人，我希望你們注意到，這是一個16歲的女孩，卻有著遠超同齡人的成熟。然而，她所說的很多話，其實都恰到好處。但我想指出的是，世上還有很多像米拉一樣的人。

不僅僅是她。我和青少年們共事過，我可以告訴你，他們中的許多人有很多話要說，我們應該傾聽。成年人，我們需要開始真正地傾聽我們的孩子。是的，我們確實需要告訴他們該做什麼。我們確實需要教導他們。

We do have to guide them in all of that. Absolutely. But we also need to make just as much effort at listening. The truth is an eight year old today and an eight year old when you grew up are not the same in any way, shape, or form. I have worked with and seen many teenagers who are extremely mature, but we slough them off and don't listen to them because we think they're young and dumb.

Perhaps you're old and dumb. Listen to them. They have a lot to say. And even if they say it in a little whiny teenage way, listen to content. Listen to what they're actually saying.

你無法解決一個你不理解的問題。如果你想為當今的年輕人解決問題，首先要認真傾聽並思考他們的想法和觀點。請傾聽我們青少年的心聲。感謝收聽“Mindshift Power”播客。請按讚並訂閱我的YouTube頻道「Mind shifter」。

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