Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. Today, we have with us Xavier Meza, and he is from Chicago, Illinois. He's 18.

And you saw the cover of this episode, so you know what it's about. And just as an FYI, this is being recorded in September 2024. Things are moving so fast. Who knows what it'll be like when you listen and listen in the future? So today's a little bit different because today, you are not here to give your opinion.

We're not looking for your opinion. You're actually here to listen to one. So I think it's very important that we listen to all voices, not just the ones that we agree with. And Xavier does represent a portion of our society and our future. So whether we like what he has to say or not, whether we agree or not or totally agree, we need to hear what our youth are thinking because they're our future.

澤維爾，你今天過得怎麼樣？很好。你呢？我很好。我期待著這次談話。

So as in a normal Fatima fashion, I like to dive right in. So why the hell are you voting for Trump? Okay. So the first thing I wanna say is I'm not an expert at all politically. I just I hear things, I see things, and I understand things.

Mhmm. And that's kind of what overall led to my conclusion. So I guess I would say the first thing is that I'm an America First kind of guy. So when I think of who I wanna vote for or kind of policies or anything like that, the first thing I'm thinking is, what's the best thing for America? I'm not usually thinking about myself as much because while I do think yeah.

I mean, I probably should think for myself, but I the most of the time, I'm thinking for America. So when I think policies wise, I just think right now, really, the the main things that I'm more worried about is foreign foreign affairs. So, like, World War three, potentially Mhmm. The economy and the border. So right now, it's just with World War three is really fast coming, especially with Putin, Russia, Russia, Ukraine.

I don't know much about Israel, pal Palestine, but Mhmm. I know that those tensions have been very high, especially recently. The economy I mean, I remember in 2016, '20 '20 when gas prices were really low, and then all of a sudden, they're, like, double three times that much. And then just the border, I mean look. I don't have a problem with with immigrants and people wanting to come to America for a better future.

I don't have a problem with that. It's just you have to come legally, and you have to come under the law because we can't have people that just come undocumented or unvetted, and they're coming into the coming into the country. I mean, that's what makes us a country is because we have these laws that we all decide to ground as a constitution. So those are just kinda the main three things where I'm just like, okay. I think I agree with Trump's policies more than, Kamala's, and that's kind of just my perspective on it.

So what I'm hearing is that it's your perception of the policies that, that draw you into voting for Trump. Yeah. It's just, yeah, it's just the realistic kind of standpoint. I just you know, there's there's also a couple other things. Like what?

我絕對不同意。我不……我不……我想你不會在所有事情上都同意他。例如，我知道他想在很多地方將大麻合法化。我不……我不同意。但是，我的意思是，如果我們要逐一分析，看看我越來越認同誰的觀點，在我看來，答案是川普。

Okay. If there were a different person in that position, who was our our nominee, who was just on the Republican side, would you still feel the same way? That depends that depends on the person. It it really it really does matter. It really does, matter who it is.

我的意思是，當我想到川普時，我看過他的幾次集會。我也看過卡瑪拉的幾次聚會。我只是覺得他是個真誠的人。你知道嗎？他正在崛起。

There was I remember seeing there was a rally where somebody fainted and and, I think it was just because of the heat or something, and he just went and gave him a hug and asked if they were all all okay. I mean, I think everyone likes to point to, the assassination attempt and when he got up and said fight. That's that's powerful, and that's something that it takes a really strong person to do that, and I think that's someone that really needs to represent this country, especially now. Okay. Do let's go back to something you said earlier.

You said you're an America First person. Yeah. Why? Well, it's the country I live in. I think and it's actually it's actually a problem I have.

我聽很多人說，他們其實不那麼關心國家。你知道嗎？我記得羅伯特甘迺迪（RFK Jr）說過，現在只有很少一部分美國人以自己是美國人為榮，相較於五十年前，嗯，五十年前的比例要高得多。事實上，你生活在自己的國家，卻不以身為美國人為榮，不為她的國家所代表的意義或諸如此類的事情感到自豪，你生活在那裡，卻對它漠不關心，我發現這真的讓人難以接受，當別人說這樣的話時，我很難接受，也很難接受。

所以，我覺得很難。為什麼我覺得很難？你覺得為什麼很多人會有這種感覺？他們沒有……我可以說，也許只是缺乏理解，或者說，總體來說，缺乏對身為美國人真正意義的理解。明白嗎？

I think I've also think you know, people mentioned the American dream and, like, what it like, the white picket fence, the house, and stuff like that. I think we've kind of lost that over the years as well. Mhmm. There's a lot of people that agree with you on that. Yeah.

我認為，當你失去這一點，你也就失去了美國的認同，例如身為美國人的認同。你懂嗎？我想，我不會稱之為刻板印象，但那些你習慣於理解的身為美國人的意義，隨著時間的推移，這些東西已經逐漸消失了。我認為這大概就是人們不感到自豪的最大原因。而且每個人的生活方式也各不相同。

You know, we're all culture culturally diverse, which is which isn't a bad thing. I'm just saying when it comes to living in a country, you know, I would say you should you should be proud of it, and you should be willing to, be a part of it and contribute to it. So you think that people in Kenya should be proud of being Kenyan? I'm just picking a random country. I mean I mean, yeah.

If you're willing to live if you're willing to live in a country I mean, especially now that we live in where you can move anywhere you want to. If you truly believe in a country, that's the country you should live in, and you should wanna live there. I don't have a I don't have an issue with that. I don't know. If, I mean, if somebody's Kenyan and they wanna live in Kenya, they should be proud to to be there.

If you're not proud to be there, then why do you wanna be there then so much? I mean I mean, yeah, it could be, like, an economic thing or, like, maybe you have money issues or something. But, I mean, I would argue if you wanna live somewhere, you should live there. And that's what I'd say. Okay.

Do you feel, that many of your peers agree with you on patriotism? Oof. No. Not really, honestly. I actually I I talk I talk a lot about, patriotism.

Sometimes sometimes maybe I'm, like, making a joke. Not not about it specifically, but, you know, some whenever I talk about it with friends or something, usually, the the biggest thing they say is, like, they're not like, they don't really care about politics, which I always find a little weird because politics, in my opinion, affects everyone. It does. Mhmm. Yeah.

我覺得無論你做什麼，政治都會影響你，所以我覺得人們應該關心它。但是，說到愛國主義，尤其是在我們這一代，我覺得很多人真的沒有這種感覺。我想問你的成長經歷，因為我覺得你的成長經歷可能會影響你的一些觀點。我覺得我們所有人都是如此，無論我們站在哪一邊。嗯。

Did you grow up in a household where politics was talked about? No. Honestly, yeah. We didn't we didn't really care about politics. It kind of came when I went to in my junior year of high school.

I started, I guess I started, like, watching more podcasts. I started, exercising more. I started doing I started, like everything kinda started changing around my junior year. Mhmm. I guess I would start to say I started to be awakened to, like, what the world is around me until, like, hey.

你正在長大。是啊，沒錯。我想那時候我才真正開始感興趣。我當時想，好吧。

So this is what's going on in the world in the world. I also started taking a politics class, and, you know, I was learning a little bit little bit of stuff like that. But, no, we never really we never really talked about politics. In fact, I, I used to be I would argue I used to be democratic or I used to be on that side because, I mean, that was my whole family, and that was everything I ever heard. Mhmm.

This might this might sound weird, but it almost it almost felt like whenever, you mentioned Republicans or even Trump around, like, 2016 or 2015, it was more like that was, like, kind of, like, the evil side. Mhmm. And that was kinda, like, the bad guy. And that's how that's how it felt. And that's and at the time, I agreed with that, until I started, you know, doing my own research, looking into things on my own.

後來，隨著時間的推移，我最終改變了主意。我當時想，好吧。你知道嗎？也許我更認同這些觀點。那麼，你做過研究嗎？

It was just it was just so most of the time when I was getting information, it was from people, so people around me. Okay. You know? When I was doing, like, own research, it would either be for my politics class. It would be a lot of looking for, like, news articles and stuff like that.

Obviously, there's media bias, so there's always it's almost the same thing as when people are talking to me and, at the time with more, like, democratic values and stuff like that. Mhmm. So when, I guess my own research was kind of just, like, really it all started when I was decide okay. Maybe I should look at the other side too. Mhmm.

因為當時我活在一種思考模式裡，我活在一種「好吧，這就是我所認同的」的心態裡。但後來我又想，「好吧，如果你連對方認同什麼都不知道，你怎麼能認同自己呢？」 但我真想先說說，如果說得通的話，我真想先說說「不了解對方」這種事。

So, like make sense, actually. Yeah. Just understand just understanding both sides is kind of nothing, and then making a decision from there instead of only knowing one. Right. I I I would agree with you on that point.

無論你站在誰的立場，只聽取一方的意見，就隨波逐流，都是非常無知的。嗯。所以，說到移民問題，我還有一個問題想問你。你到底認識多少移民？幾個。

I'm not gonna name names, but No. You're not they're they're good people. And, like, seriously, like, I I don't think there's a similar immigrant I've met where I thought, like, oh, I'd like, I wouldn't say something stupid. Like, oh, I don't want this person to be here. Like, I I think that's close minded.

But Mhmm. There's a couple. And I know and they're they're they're just, like, you know, our average our average people I talk to. You know, they're great people. They have their own experiences, obviously.

I don't have a problem with them at all. There's one in specific I could think of. He actually I remember he got his, I guess, his I I'm not I'm not an expert, but I guess he got his green card or something. And I remember he showed me how excited he was. And Well, that is a big deal when they get that.

是的。他確實如此，你知道，看到他這樣，我感到很高興。我當時就想，哇。你知道，他真的，他看起來比大多數出生在美國的人更熱愛美國。我跟很多外國人合作過，所以可以肯定地說。

I worked with a ref a local refugee group for a while. In fact, I used to hire from there. They're just working with a lot of foreigners. Getting a green card is a big deal, and you are 1000% right. Many of the foreigners who come here and are able to get a green card and eventually able to become a citizen, they know more American history than the average American, and they're prouder to be an American than most of us.

是的，我得說你完全正確。是啊。因為他們為了得到它，承受了更多。我們只是生來就被寵壞的孩子。你懂嗎？

So Yeah. So, yeah, you're definitely right about that. Now I wanna ask you, about your, about your perspective a little bit more. So where do you see this country in ten years? So I wanna also mention to the audience, I meant to say it's the beginnings in the beginning.

澤維爾18歲了。他幾個月前剛高中畢業，但他已經18歲了，所以他有投票權。他的選票很重要，因為你知道，實際上每一張選票都很重要。那麼，你認為十年後這個國家會是什麼樣子呢？哦，嗯，我的意思是，這取決於誰贏了。

Mhmm. Are you ask are you also asking who I think would win? And then No. Not anymore. Just in general where you see our culture going, where you see the country headed.

Culture going. You can you can tell me the answers for both candidates if you want. Okay. I'll start with under if I I think if Kamala Harris goes is becomes president, I think most of her policies are pretty much the same as what we've already seen the past four years. Mhmm.

She doesn't really plan on changing that much, if any. So I don't I think there's just gonna be a lot of I mean, let's start with, like, the BLM riots. There's been there's been a lot of protests where there's been a lot of, like, looting and criminal activity and stuff like that. I know crime has also been raised. I think it was, like, 20 to 30%, somewhere around there.

So I really I really don't think it's going to go in a good direction. I do think we'll end up in World War three because I don't think Kamala's willing to talk and do the hard the hard talking to big leaders in the world. I mean, she won't even go to an interview for somebody that doesn't agree with her standpoints. So I don't think I think that's important too because, you know, if you're the president of the best country in the world, in my opinion, You have to be able to do the hard talks and be able to defend the nation, and I don't think she's capable of doing that. So I would I would argue we would end up in World War three.

What else? Either if we keep having the border that's just wide open, especially now, I think Mhmm. It's going it's just there's so many criminals that are coming in. There's people from jails coming in from multiple countries, not just, like, South America, but even across, the continents. And if that keeps happening, crime's just gonna go through the through the roof.

It's almost gonna seem like an anarchy. What about the economy? The yeah. I mean, it would just I don't think she's capable of fixing it. I know now they're trying to do, they're trying to to lower gas prices.

I'm not gonna speak on, like, if it's, like, a political move or something. But I guess with the with the economy, I I don't see it going down either. I mean, I don't she hasn't said anything about the she hasn't said anything about all she said is, like, doing tax cuts for the rich. And, personally, I don't think that's ever gonna work, and I just don't I don't think she has anything new that's going to work that is really going to, affect the prices, especially now, which is just so high. And, yeah, I I don't see anything good for the future of, the Kamala Harris administration, but I know, with Trump, I know immediately he said his first, his first day ones were to he said in his words, drill baby drill, which is just more fracking, and then, to seal the border, which is definitely really important.

我知道他計劃在能源方面投入更多精力，為經濟做出貢獻，因為能源與萬物息息相關。他也提到，美國大量使用石油，而且美國的石油儲量比世界上大多數國家都多，這絕對非常重要。而且我知道，就我個人而言，我的意思是，我認為川普是自二月以來唯一一位沒有發動任何戰爭或讓美國捲入任何新戰爭的總統。嗯。我知道他經常談論他如何與世界各國領導人保持聯繫，有些人認為這是件壞事，但我認為這是件好事，他能夠與世界各國領導人保持聯繫，並且，嗯，很友好，但同時，也會說，嘿。

我們比你們強大。如果發生什麼事，你知道，我們願意採取行動。我認為這就是他成為如此優秀總統的原因，因為他願意成為我們需要的強勢領導者，而這並沒有引發任何戰爭。我認為，在我們現任政府的領導下，他們不願意進行任何重要的談判之類的事情，他們只是讓俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭，以及這些美國人民一直在抗議的戰爭。所以，就是這樣。

I would argue under Trump, it would be more of an up uphill with with America where as our current administration, I don't think it would go well for America. And what about the economy if if Trump wins? When it's well, again, like, using energy. Because energy revolves around anything. When there's when there's, when there's good energy and low in the energy prices, so for example, the electricity or anything or even with bills and, gas and the houses, the fact that he's willing willing to lower those by using America American, like like, producing oil in America, it definitely helps the economy.

And then just, like, thinking about how the economy was from 2016, '20 '20, and then 2020 to 2024. I mean, I just I remember gas being, like, $2 to $2.50. And now I'm going outside, and it's, like, $3.30 and $3.70. And then there's, like, inflation's the whole thing again, and that's just from reckless spending. I mean, we could talk about how much money that, the Biden administration spent on for Ukraine when I think we can all agree that that money should have went to us, and there's definitely a lot of problems that we definitely need fixing.

So things like that too. I I do think the economy would be be better under Trump, though. Okay. What do you see? Again, we're talking about the future.

Yep. How do you feel like the people that are in your generation right now who are in your age range, which I will say is 17 to 25, just to make it that narrow. How do you see them running politics in ten years? Or or even twenty years, because maybe I should say a longer time span, but just in the future. It's a really good question.

我的意思是，這一切都取決於他們如何獲取信息，然後在那段時間將其運用到自己的觀點中。我認為這只是個難題。是的。我的意思是，每個人都有自己的觀點，但我確實認為，在我這一代，我相當肯定，有一些圖表或類似的東西顯示，我們這一代人普遍變得更加支持共和黨。我認為尤其如此。

That's what I've heard. At least a little bit. Like, not like, nothing drastic, but a little bit, I think. And I'm the more, the question where I'm facing is, like, it would that stay for a while? Because, I mean, again, if Trump wins, you know, it depends on what he does in his four years.

If Kamala wins, it depends on what she does in her four years and what people tend to agree with. I guess, regarding the future, I think it's just it kinda it kinda just depends what happens around us and, like, what really what people really think is going to happen. I mean, if we're in World War three and stuff like that, people tend to become more, like, traditional, more conservative when things are, like, really hard around us. But when everything's easy and there's nothing going on, usually, I would argue people are more democratic, more liberal. It's that kind of thing, but also just how how they learn and what they come up with.

I think politics is also just itself is becoming more I wouldn't say more of a joke, but, I mean, like, if you look at the debates, they just I remember when people use when Obama and, I think his name was Mitt Romney. Mhmm. And the debates, they used to shake hands before and, you know, they would they would Right. Like, they would, obviously, they would talk bad on each other because well, they're debating, but, I mean, there was still, like, respect there. Yeah.

That would be that would also be, like, my biggest critique of or one of one of my critiques of Trump is how there's a little lack of there's a lack of respect for the people around him. And, you know, even though I know he's he's talking bad on Biden and Kamala for his campaign, but you I mean, they're also still the president. Biden's still the president of The United States. I mean, there's still you know, if if it was me, I would still try and show at least a little respect. But, yeah.

但我不知道。未來充滿不確定性。我想，一切都取決於未來幾年會發生什麼，以及我們周圍的世界會如何發展。好的。您對現在的年輕人，以及您這個年齡的人有什麼建議或評論嗎？

評論。我想說，最重要的一點是確保你收到的訊息是雙面的。所以，確保你收到的是兩種觀點，因為，我的意思是，雖然我可能會考慮一方的觀點，但我不會告訴別人不要這樣做，不要投票給另一方或諸如此類。我只是說出我的想法，如果他們想聽，他們可以聽。我只是要確保你從兩方面來考慮，而不是只看一面。

我認為這一點至關重要，因為在那個時候，你會用自己的大腦而不是別人的大腦來做決定。我認為這也是一種損失，因為我覺得很多人在為別人著想，而不是為自己著想。嗯。這是我的第一條評論。我本來想問你對成年人有什麼建議，但我覺得同樣適用。是的。

And then we're just following through following the Yeah. I mean, adults would just be like, listen to maybe listen to our generation more of what we're saying. Mhmm. I definitely think there's some things that us kids are going through right now that especially at, like, the age of 18 and, like, trying to afford college or something like that is Yeah. Really important really important or basically trying to make enough money to make it somewhere now is definitely something important.

So maybe, like, advice like that. It's different for you than it was for us for sure. Yeah. Stuff like that. One more question.

Okay. Since it has already happened twice, what would it look like if Trump were really assassinated? In my opinion Mhmm. I I think there's a lot of Trump supporters that are very, very into Trump and very, I guess I wouldn't say hard headed, but they're definitely, like, big supporters. I do think there would be some kind of there would definitely be riots everywhere.

如果這種事已經發生過兩次，現在又再次發生，我想人們會覺得，已經發生了很多事了，就像，有多少人一直在嘗試，他們已經見過這種事幾乎發生過兩次了，而且有很多準備工作要做。所以我認為，如果真的發生了，那真的會是某種形式的無政府狀態或類似的東西。因為那樣的話，我們幾乎就被迫選卡瑪拉·哈里斯了。我認為到那時，沒有人能夠勝過她。是的。

And at that point, you're taking away a choice, from from a lot of Americans who do feel very strongly about their political views. So I do think, like, a lot of bad things will happen. I think people would be running on the streets, I think. Do you think that many of those people would be your age? Would they be Probably not.

好的。可能不會。我覺得應該會有年紀大一點的人，年紀稍長的人。但也許我的意思是，因為，再說一次，我認為我們這一代其實不太關心政治。至少，政治不是他們現在最關注的。

Mhmm. I think it's when you graduate college or when you really joined the workforce. It's kind of like, okay. Well, now I'm starting to realize what's going on around me. You know?

也許你去雜貨店買東西，汽油價格太高了，或者你想加油，汽油價格太高了，諸如此類。我想那時你才開始多了解政治，但我認為現在人們可能真的不會想那麼多。所以他們可能會，可能會感到害怕，我們這一代，因為他們可能不知道到底發生了什麼事。嗯。因為我們接觸不到太多這樣的資訊。

但是，是的，我只是……我不……我不認為如果川普真的被暗殺，肯定會出現很多暴政。很遺憾，我認為你是對的。是的。雖然理由不充分，但我認為你是對的。嗯。

Well, Xavier, thank you for coming on and and, letting us know what you think. And I'm hoping that audience that you were able to hear an 18 year old in America right now. And while Xavier does not represent every 18 year old, of course, he does represent a portion of our society that whether we like it or not, they exist, and we should listen because they're they're a part of us too. So, again, thank you, Xavier. Of course.

Of course. Thanks for having me. And now for a mind shifting moment. I wanna bring you back to something that Xavier said in the episode today. It's important that you get your information, whether you're voting for Harris or Trump or putting in Mickey Mouse on the ballot.

Wherever you are, it is very important that we get our information from multiple sources and not just people who think like us. When you do this, you become very biased and very ignorant, quite frankly, and very easily manipulated. It is best to get your information from multiple sources and then come to your own conclusion, whatever that may be for you. So just consider, what are your news sources? What are your resources of information that you take on and believe?

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