歡迎收聽「思維轉換力量」播客，這是一個面向青少年及其相關成年人的節目，我們將在這裡進行坦誠而直接的對話。我是主持人法蒂瑪貝，思維轉換專家。歡迎大家收聽。在今天的節目中，我們將探討學生債務以及如何擺脫它。今天的節目我們邀請到了丹尼斯，她是一位TEDx演講者。

She's from Florida. She is she has designed a strategy that has won her two homeschools teens 17 scholarships totaling more than a hundred $99,000 for four years of college debt free with cash left over. I think that is so awesome. Welcome, Denise. How are you today?

嘿，親愛的。我很高興能在這裡和你的聽眾分享這一點。我很高興你來。我迫不及待地想開始這場對話，因為我非常相信你所做的事情以及你如何幫助別人。所以你擁有一種叫做「領先於他人」的東西。

Tell us what that is. Get Ahead of the Class is my company, and what we do is we work with families to help them figure out ways of sending their kids to college, to higher education without sacrificing whatever investments or income the parents have and also without the teenager, the young adult, having to go into ridiculous amounts of debt for literally decades. The truth is there there's so many truths and mindset shifts that have to happen in order for this to happen. Number one, not everyone needs to go to college. I firmly believe that somewhere along the lines of three decades ago, someone said everyone must have a college degree in order to be successful in life.

Mhmm. And that is so not true. And so from that premise, I believe that that is why today, we have seventy percent of our population with a college degree. Whereas three decades ago, it was just the opposite. Only 30% had a college degree.

And trust me, everybody was doing just freaking fine. So, you know, whoever came up with this and look, I'm one of these people that says follow the money. Mhmm. I would be willing to bet that when it comes to following the money, that whoever created that study that says everyone has to have a college degree, somewhere down that trickling of following the money, there are colleges that are high priced that were involved in that study. There just had to be because it's a ridiculous premise.

Because what we have today is a bunch of college educated people that are serving coffee at Starbucks. Amen. You're so right. Completely unnecessary. % right.

是的，我同意。所以我真的在盡力與美國人民分享我們如何做出改變。答：就像我說的，如果大學學位不是你的終身技能和你的職涯發展目標所要求的，你不必非得擁有大學學位。此外，對於那些確實想上大學的人來說，有很多不同的方法和途徑可以實現這一目標，而不必背負數十年的債務。

最終負債累累的不僅是孩子們，家長們也是。每隔幾年，我們就會聽到關於學生債務的政治炒作。問題是，他們只是談論這個問題，卻不告訴你，如果沒有共同簽署人，孩子們，青少年們，只能獲得極少量的學生貸款。所以，我們負債累累，負債累累，數以萬計。

Well, guess who's cosigning for that puppy? Either mom and dad or grandma and grandpa. And how is that gonna affect their retirement? Because I can promise you, Johnny and Susie are not planning to support their parents in their retirement years because the money ran out. So it's really something we have to go back and think about.

你知道嗎？我們需要各種職業，而我們的職業現在正遭受巨大的衝擊，就因為這個錯誤的前提，即每個人都需要大學學位。你說得對，這正是我經常做的事情，我經常去各地辦研討會，在高中演講，以不同的身份與高中生一起工作，我非常喜歡這份工作。我想談的其中一件事就是你剛才說的話。其實還有很多其他的職業不需要大學學位，而且收入也跟大學學位一樣高，像是機械師。

There's different kinds of mechanics, but mechanics makes really good money. They do need to go to trade trade school. They do need extra, you know, they still need continued education, but it doesn't have to be in the form of college. Right? And certainly not the kind of money that it takes to get the college degree.

And even if you look at it this way, because people don't usually think about this. When you're going to trade school, a, that's a short term. It might be two years. But usually, you can still get a job and start making some money and start investing in your own retirement even at that young age. But when you're in college, the vast majority are not working and making good money.

所以他們必須推遲開始新生活，至少要等四到六年才能存錢。而高中畢業後從事科技業的人，他們可以馬上開始，而且他們的經濟狀況已經比那些獲得大學學位的人好。所以這不是強制性的。正如你所說，機械師和機械工程師的潛在收入潛力是一樣的。你只需要選擇最適合你的職業。

Right. Right. And so many people are just jumping to college because that's what their parents are telling them that they're supposed to do. As you said, you know, before, that's that's been kind of pounded into our head and and made a part of a culture. Oh, yes.

You you must you must put money into the industry that we own. You know, you could say the same thing about oh, other industries like pharmaceuticals, but that's another con another conversation. But, it really to me is kind of the the the, the same thing. Now is there let me ask you this question because I know that since we're talking about trades, there are gonna be teenagers who are listening right now. They're gonna wonder this for themselves.

對於那些不上大學、想去職業學校、想創業、自己創業或參加間隔年計畫的人來說，有錢可以賺嗎？有錢可以賺嗎？有，也沒有。這些錢主要用於高等教育。當然，這其中也包括職業教育，因為那是高中畢業後的。

Mhmm. If you look if you look at the mountain of money that's available, and it is a mountain, there's 1,800,000 scholarships given away every year, totaling more than $23,000,000,000 with a b. Wow. The vast majority is for high school seniors. So if you look at it like a mountain, if you you look upside down v, it's a mountain.

The very top, the most available are for high school seniors going into college the very next year. You come down one side of the mountain, I kid you not, scholarships for college begin in kindergarten. What? Uh-huh. Yeah.

I had to pause for that because I knew that was coming. They do begin in kindergarten. There's only one or two. And as you come up that side of the mountain, there are about 20 or so available for 13. Then there's a few hundred or so available for early high school, freshman, sophomore, and junior year.

然後，你會發現有數百萬個獎學金名額提供給高年級學生。現在，我們再來看看山的另一邊。山的另一邊是目前就讀的本科生。再往下一點，是一些專業院校的學生，像是研究所、醫學院、法學院的學生。這些學校也有獎學金。

哦，好的。是的，即使在這個範圍的另一端，職業學校、社區大學或專科學校也有獎學金。但就像小學一樣，獎學金的數量並不多。不過，職業學校絕對有獎學金。至於其他方面的資金，無論你是想創業，還是像你提到的那樣，利用間隔年來思考自己想做什麼，或者利用間隔年去傳教之類的。

That would be more getting involved in some personal ways of bringing in that money versus, an organization that has already gotten that figured out. Okay. Well, thank you for, clarifying that. Let me ask you another question. Let's say we have a a situation, and I know of someone where this is the case, for her.

我認識一個年輕女孩，她沒有親生母親，她的親生母親卻擁有六位數的遺產。所以她們很難獲得資助，但她其實並沒有和母親住在一起。但從表面上看，她的情況就是這樣，你知道，這就是她的情況，這在她申請大學資助方面確實對她造成了很大的傷害，她因此推遲了申請，我們知道，在大多數情況下，這都不是好主意。對於這樣的人來說，申請獎學金有用嗎？絕對有用。

Yeah. And and here's the thing. There are rules there are rules when it comes to, which parent or or what parents' finances are included on the financial aid forms for college. Mhmm. For example, if there's a divorce, sometimes both parents' information has to be on it.

Sometimes it's a specific parent who gives the most financial support. Some of that is gonna depend on which financial aid form we're talking about. There's actually two. Okay. The other thing to to to know as well is that for a student who is estranged from the parent, it's entirely possible to become emancipated.

這需要律師，而且你知道，這需要大量的參與。如果學生在某個時間點無家可歸，還需要勾選方塊。好的。所以肯定有辦法不用把父母的收入寫在這些財務表格上。但是，你可以打賭，聯邦政府已經識破了所有花招。

嗯。他們確保只有最需要幫助的家庭才能獲得聯邦援助或聯邦補助。所以，基本上，如果你能養家糊口，你就不會得到聯邦補助。哇哦。你不應該得到補助，因為這不是目的。

It's not for everyone to be able to just, you know, come grab hold of some money somebody else's taxes are paying for. Yeah. It's intended for those who truly are in financial straits. However, that said, the monies available for that is not intended for you to go away to some really expensive college, private school with room and board and all that mess added. It's intended to cover your local regional university and for you to live at home while you're doing it.

It's supposed to cover, you know, maybe basic tuition, maybe tuition and fees depending, but it's not going to cover all the bells and whistles. That's not its intent. It's to get the educational portion. Now you you you talked in the beginning about how you, pretty much told us, you know, what motivated you to to get this started. How long have you been at how long have you been at this?

I've been coaching parents for at least fifteen years. I really don't, you know, like, check the box and what year was it was I started. Yeah. Me either. But I do absolutely love what I do because it brings financial freedom to these families, and it is such a blessing to me to be able to do that and give that to these families.

What I find is that the the families that win are the ones that hit the ground running. We're on the same page. We have the same goal. The goal is not to attend a college that's not going to offer you money. The goal is the money.

We just need the degree, and we need to do it with as little out of pocket money as possible. So a large percentage of my families are in that realm where they're able to have their kids go to college debt free with cash leftover. It's it's way more than the national averages because there's a reason for this. You know, we're we're on the same page. We understand what we're going for.

And if I'm having an initial conversation and a family wants to purchase the cracking the code to free college formula, but I feel like maybe the teenager's not on board. Maybe the teenager feels like, you know, everybody has college debt. I guess I'll have college debt too. Honey, that's not gonna work. Yes.

不，這行不通。現在有太多人這麼想了。我之所以知道這一點，是因為我經常和青少年打交道，也經常在高中和他們交流，他們中的許多人根本不知道外面究竟有什麼可以供他們選擇。然後你就會得到，天哪。

You can get scholarships. I'll let you dive into this a little bit more. You can get scholarships for the the biggest and the dumbest things. 100%. Butterflies on Tuesday.

There's a scholarship for that. Yes. I'm exaggerating only a little bit. Only a little. Only a little.

But in every every state, there's different scholarships. I you know, that's it's not like there's the same scholarships in every state, and I think it's important that teen my teenage audience understands that too. Your your particular state is gonna have different details. And but what, what Denise does is across the nation. So she gives you the general tools, and then you could talk about the details within your state.

You know? Yeah. It's kinda like it's kinda like teaching a man to fish. You know, if you're film familiar with that biblical story, you know, do you do you do you give a man a fish? He's gonna eat for a day.

但授人以魚，不如授人以漁。這正是我所做的。我見過，我知道，其他獎學金專家，為了一大筆錢，樂意為青少年提供20個獎學金名額。好的。很酷。

That's a drop in the bucket. What about next year? Yeah. What about next month? You know, especially when you talk about juniors and seniors, we're talking about literally, I kid you not, millions of scholarships available.

所以我想跟在座的青少年們聊一分鐘。你們會失敗。這就是生活。人生並非總是一帆風順。總有失敗的時候。

Learn that concept now Mhmm. So that going forth in life, when obstacles come up, when there are losses, when you get dumped by a girlfriend or boyfriend, when you get laid off from a job. And notice I'm saying when, not if. These things will happen in your life. Mhmm.

And the same is true with college acceptance and with scholarships. You will lose. So what I tell my families is this, as you're applying for these scholarships, you're gonna list them in a spreadsheet, you're gonna check the box and write down the date that you applied, and you hit the send button, and then you're gonna forget about it and move on to the next one. Because that's the attitude you have to take. What's next?

Move forward. Because these scholarship organizations are not going to tell you that you lost. They will only connect with the person or persons who have won that particular round. Right. Okay?

So to make this work, you have to be willing to continually be applying for more and more scholarships. And here's the thing. I've I've seen two two things occur real frequently. Number one, I've seen parents that tell their kid, don't apply to anything under $10,000. Really?

I swear to you, I have heard that. And I'm thinking, excuse me, $500 was more than you had in the bank yesterday. I don't care how many millions you have right now. It's still $500. Yep.

Alright. Second, which I'm thinking, hey. You wanna tell your kids that? That's great. That's more for my kids.

Whatever. Just saying. You know? But, anyway, the other thing is this. There are more than 100,000 scholarships every year that go unawarded.

Unawarded meaning nobody got the prize. So why is it that nobody got the prize? Well, either no one applied for the scholarship, which does happen. Mhmm. I've actually talked with people who give scholarships who say they have to go to the high schools every year that are local and beg their kids to apply.

But a lot of people don't think they can win. They don't think they're good enough. Right. Read my lips even though you can't see me. BS.

Okay? Anyone can win these scholarships. You do not have to be a genius. That almost $200 that my two kids won, literally half of it did not ask for GPA or test scores. Really?

Literally half. A hundred grand worth. Wow. All you have to do is answer an essay question. Now I'm not one to really promote answering the ones that are requiring you to write a dissertation of 10,000 words.

Unless you wrote that essay already for an English class, please pass that by. It is not worth it. I guarantee you it's just not worth the effort. Do not do that. But the vast majority are going to be less than a page long for your essay, and they just want your opinion on a topic.

Just be honest. And you're right. There are so many topics out there. I kid you not. One of them is a zombie apocalypse scholarship.

I'm laughing, but I know that you're not lying. When I approach this zombie apocalypse, I'm gonna wear a mask. I'm telling you. And wouldn't that be hilarious? I'm loving that.

I'm loving that. That'd be awesome. And somebody today might really laugh at that. And here's the thing. If if for the teenagers out there listening right now, there really are scholarships out there for every freaking tiny little thing.

即使獎學金只有兩美元五百美元，也要爭取幾份。積少成多，真的很重要。這真的非常重要。在遇到丹妮絲之前，我常常跟青少年說，別背負過多的債務去上學。

很多人會說，我的天哪！真希望我早點知道丹尼斯現在教什麼，所以我才邀請她來上課。我非常相信你們所做的一切，相信你們為家庭、為國家所做的一切，相信你們幫助盡可能多的人擺脫我們稱之為「大學債務」的陷阱，走向更好的人生。因為這些學者，因為如今人們大學畢業後背負的大學債務如此巨大，這給人們帶來了巨大的壓力，甚至損害了他們的生活。而這正是最困擾我的地方。

It's the actually not the money. It's the it's the stress and the feeling of failure that many of them have afterwards because they're still spending years and years paying off the freaking debt. And if they have so if they listen to someone like you, they don't have to do that. There are ways around it. They just need to actually connect with the people who can do that, and I'm I'm hoping that enough of you listening actually either connect with Denise or start looking for some scholarships around you.

是的。而且，你知道，我認為孩子們也需要明白和關注的一件事是，這不僅僅是青少年時期的你。這需要你的成年導師，無論是父母還是高中輔導員。我們都掉進了這樣的陷阱：我必須上前20或前100名的大學，不管這代表什麼。

But here's what they don't know about this. That college ranking system is not based on educational quality. It is not? It's not. That ranking system is not based on student outcomes.

In other words, what happens five years, ten years after you have that degree from that, quote, prestigious college versus a state university. But there have been enough studies that prove for the vast majority of students attending those colleges versus attending a a state school, the outcome is identical. It's just that one of them has $200 in debt more than the other one. So really think seriously about that because it's not a requirement. And if you ask what we used to call headhunters, which today are our employment recruiters, they will tell you straight out, I've been doing this twenty years.

Nobody gives a crap about what college you went to. We just know that you got the degree. That's it. Mhmm. So as far as shifting your mindset, there are several things you have to do.

You know, Believe you can win because literally anyone can win. And don't believe what everyone else is doing out there because what they're doing is keeping them in debt. You've got to change your mind. Right. And when it comes to applying for scholarships, and I know that this I know that it's an issue for a lot of teens who don't believe that they'll win, so they don't even try.

I you can a hundred percent guarantee that you will not win if you don't try. You have to you have to at least try. And as Denise said earlier, you you might you're not gonna win every single one, and that's okay. Apply for 50. If you get 20, that's really awesome.

You know? You you're gonna have to apply for it's just like applying for jobs. You're not gonna get every job you apply for either. You're gonna have to apply a bunch of different places, and you might get three or four phone calls back. But at least you you're at the end of the day, you're gonna get a job, you know, just from those phone calls.

所以你至少得試試。丹尼斯，我再問你一個問題。對你來說，高中畢業後取得成功意味著什麼？對我來說，我現在來自一個老派。好的。

I'm a just start there. I come from a background that to be a successful what it means to to raise successful children is that when they leave your home, they can, quote, fend for themselves, they can get a job of some kind, they can feed themselves, they can close themselves, they can get some type of roof over their head, but they're also contributing members of society. They're contributing to making things happen, and they're contributing in some way of volunteering. Or or even if they don't have the time, let's say they let's say they have a job that's twelve hours a day. My brother I have a brother that does that.

所以，如果你沒有時間在志工服務中為社區付出，或許你可以捐一些資金來幫助社區應對各種情況。對我來說，即使是剛畢業的人，在人生中取得成功也很重要。我遇到過一些家庭，他們的孩子剛畢業，他們做的第一件事就是在每天上下班的路上註意到無家可歸者的數量。他們會去雜貨店，拿一小包紙袋午餐袋，裡面裝滿生活必需品、牙刷、洗手液之類的東西，或許還會放幾張當地麥當勞或漢堡王的禮品卡，這些禮品卡就在她看到這些人的地區附近。她會在袋子上標記「男性」、「女性」或「C」（代表兒童），然後把袋子放在汽車座椅後面。因此，在她的日常出行中，她能夠將這些東西分發給她每天開車時遇到的無家可歸的人。

That is success to me. It's thinking about your fellow man and understanding I can do something to help. What can I do? I would say that that's a part of being a productive member of society, not just paying your bills and not just making money and buying stuff, but doing for others in any form. And there are many different forms in which we can do that, but in any form.

Well, it's been really, really awesome talking to you, and I'm really hoping that, we that we can get that message out there to teenagers and that more of them really do try to go for scholarships so that they can actually not come out with all the debt that they keep hearing us talking about. So how can people find you, Denise? Well, you can always run over to my my website, get ahead of the class.com, or get a debtfreedegree.com. Whichever one you can remember will get you to the same place. I also have, if you get to that website, on that website, there's opportunities for some free ideas and some free things, some blog post information.

There's a Facebook group, podcast. All of that is available on that same page. But I also have a book, and the book is on Amazon, and it's called how to go to college debt free. So if you look that up and just put Denise Thomas in it, you'll find it. And what this book does, the first one that's out tells you exactly how we found all those scholarships for my kids.

There are 17 ways of finding scholarships, and that's what that book will do for you. And, everything that Denisha said will also be in the episode details on whichever platform you're listening to this podcast. I wanna add that Denise also has a checklist on her website that I think is an excellent tool for every single high school student to take a look at. I will have a link to that, in the the episode description as well. So thank you, Denise, for for coming on and spending time with us and, getting the word out there, and I hope that this makes a lot of connections for you.

謝謝。謝謝你們邀請我來，幫我宣傳。現在，讓我們換個角度思考。如果你是家長，請努力了解有哪些獎學金可以申請，無論是給你的孩子，還是給即將去職業學校、大學，或其他任何未來目標的孩子。請不要承擔不必要的債務。

Parenting is hard enough, and financially, it's hard enough. Don't take out more debt than you need to. Get as much help as you can. And for the teenagers listening, please take the time. It is worth the effort to go out there and seek out those scholarships that may be available to you.

正如你之前聽到丹尼斯說的，她的孩子申請的獎學金至少有50%根本不問你的GPA是多少。他們甚至不問你的成績。去申請吧。不試怎麼知道。如果你申請了50個獎學金，最後能拿到10到20個，那就算勝利了。

It's free money. You don't have to pay back. Plan for a better future now. Don't be like everyone else who's complaining about paying off loans. You might make 6 figures in the next career you're going into, but you won't see those 6 figures for years because you'll be paying off loans.

Don't do that. Apply for your little scholarships today. They are for you. They are for you. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast.

請造訪 FatimaBay.com/podcast。記住，轉變思維的力量無窮。敬請收聽下週的播客。