歡迎收聽「思維轉換力量」播客，這是一個面向青少年及其相關成年人的節目，我們將在這裡進行坦誠而直接的對話。我是主持人法蒂瑪貝，思維轉換專家。歡迎大家！今天我們邀請到了奧馬爾·亞辛。他住在亞利桑那州圖森，是亞利桑那大學的研究生，也是助理教授。

奧馬爾，你今天過得怎麼樣？我很好。你一切都好嗎？很好。很好。

我期待這次對話。我覺得你有很多有趣的事要說。所以，我想直接切入正題。告訴觀眾你來自哪裡？我來自埃及。

I grew up in Saudi Arabia most of my life, and, I moved to The US for my undergrad college. And ever since that, I've been living in Tucson, and I'm enjoying my life here. Okay. Just out of a curiosity, is the Saudi Arabian, does the Saudi Arabian government help to pay for your school? No.

Not really. They do actually help a lot of the, like, Saudi people to Yeah. I know. To them abroad. But since I'm not Saudi, I just lived there for Ah, okay.

我什麼費用都得自己付。哦，哇。好吧。我問這個問題是因為我以前教英語作為第二語言，而且我曾經教過不少沙烏地阿拉伯的研究生。我知道他們的政府確實這麼做。

這就是我問的原因。有道理。他們覺得政府需要教育新一代，而且我很喜歡他們竭盡全力讓新一代接受盡可能好的教育的想法，我想，全世界的新一代都應該接受這樣的教育。說實話，我覺得他們這樣做很明智。他們透過這項政策，大大促進了他們的經濟和國家的發展。

那你為什麼要來美國呢？其實從大學開始，我就一直想著出國留學，尤其是去美國。所以，從小到大，我都知道這就是我想去的地方。我知道在那樣的環境中生活，我的性格會真正成長。此外，我還想實現很多個人目標。

你想成為一個領導者，你想成為一個社交能力很強的人，並建立各種人脈。我一直想，你知道嗎？美國確實是我可以發展的地方。我為自己這些年來所展現的個性和為人感到非常自豪。我很好。

I'm just curious why you chose The US and why The US was on your radar instead of The UK because we're pretty Well, I I had other options. So my other options would be The UK or Canada. Mhmm. It's just more from a college aspect as well. I knew that the colleges at in The US were kinda more challenging.

你知道，他們獲得了更多認證。而且，這裡的體係有點像美國體系，我高中階段學習的比較低，例如我的GPA和SAT，我當時在美國高中文憑下學習，這在某種程度上讓它成為了最合理的過渡。好的。這對我來說很合理。我之前不知道這一點。

Did not know that at all. So what is one of so you're from Egypt. Yeah. Before I ask you this next question, let's talk about that. You're from Egypt, which is a completely different culture than The US.

What is one of the first adjustments that you had to make when you came here? This could be very, this could be very broad, but the one thing that actually just pops up in my head is how honest you should be. So as you I've probably you've noticed this before from a lot of Middle Eastern, cultures, they're very generous. They're always giving. Right?

嗯。他們什麼都想付錢。對。而且來到美國，你不用這麼做。我不會說你說謊或假裝那樣。你只是不應該這麼做。

這樣一來，我也不會說你虛偽，但你不用非得有一張辦公桌，也不必總是對他們過分慷慨，因為他們會說，哦，我沒想到你會這樣。在家裡，你被期望這樣做。如果你不這麼做，可能會給你留下不好的印象，讓你顯得不像個應該慷慨的人。所以，這能減輕很多可能發生的痛苦。是的。

K：所以這是一種文化規範，而且不僅適用於沙烏地阿拉伯，對吧？我的意思是沙烏地阿拉伯、埃及。我認為它更像是一種中東式的理念。

Yeah. Okay. Well, it's not just Middle Eastern. I could think of a few other cultures that are kind of like that too. I older Greeks can be like that too.

所以我認為世界上有很多文化都類似，但我明白你的意思。友善和給予可能會比實際的義務性更強，然後你會感到壓力更大。是的。正如你所說，這是義務。是的。

Yeah. And we're not obliged to be that way. What are the other so even though you're from Egypt, how old were you when you moved to Saudi Arabia? I was five years old. So I used to go to Egypt all the time during summer and winter breaks.

However, I generally think the culture between Saudi Arabia and Egypt is kinda similar. Okay. Saudi Arabia just has a little bit more diversity from the amount of, Middle Eastern countries you can find there. So it's brought up around of Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, Sudanese. So you try to make these, like, friends friendships that are from all around and you kinda they're also not a % Egyptian, and I'm not a % Egyptian, and they're not % Jordanian because they kinda grew up Right.

沙烏地阿拉伯也一樣。我覺得用這種方式了解不同的文化真是個不錯的組合。很酷。好的。所以從文化角度來說，根據你之前跟我解釋的，我猜你比較像沙烏地阿拉伯人，因為你是在那裡長大的。

但我知道你還是在埃及家庭長大的。哦，是的。是的。所以，我確信兩者之間有一些細微的差別，但我理解你的意思，因為我接觸過很多中東人，來自不同國家的人。我注意到了他們的相似之處，也注意到了差異。

And I know also there's a lot of Sudanese in particular in in Egypt because of war. And, I I just love talking to people from other countries, so I find it all very fascinating. And everybody has a story to tell. So what do you what have you noticed are the biggest differences culturally between the way you grew up, besides the the giving piece? Because there's a lot of other differences.

你在沙烏地阿拉伯長大，家裡有埃及文化，後來來到美國。我想說，在學校打工的想法在國內並不常見。你是什麼意思？所以，當你在學習，或是在讀高中或大學的時候，你不需要工作。我得費很大勁才能說服我父母允許我在這裡工作。

They thought it would be a distraction or they thought it would be hindering my main priorities on school. However, I took it as like I can't just be staying home and do nothing when I see my friends and colleagues, are working some other job. Even if it's not really related to my future, having that experience is very important. So my first ever job was in The US. Oh, wow.

Wow. Okay. I wanna point out something that you said you probably didn't even notice that you said. How old are you right now? I'm 23.

好的。你來的時候多大？我17歲。哦，哦，你還是未成年。因為你剛才說你需要父母的許可才能工作，但你確實是未成年人。

好的。是的。但我18歲的時候甚至不想工作。我真正開始考慮工作是在19歲的時候，當時我發現上學並不像我想像的那麼耗時。而且我確實有時間工作，所以我就開始有了這個想法。

Wow. Okay. I well, then my thought process there was incorrect, but I'm I'm glad that you you took the initiative to want to actually work even though you didn't have to. I think that's a good thing. So what are now what are some of the things that you would consider that are not good about living in a foreign land?

嗯，尤其是美國，因為你身處美國。我想說，家庭的概念非常重要，我指的是你和家人的親密程度。嗯。所以，說實話，自從我搬到這裡之後，我開始更感激我的父母。不是因為我更想念他們，而是因為我意識到自己把一切都視為理所當然。

Mhmm. Okay. I always face this, awkward conversations when I would be talking about how my childhood was and then automatically two or three people that I'm having a conversation with, they would mention that they have divorced parents. And it became so frequent in conversations that I started thinking that this is a a sensitive topic. For some people, it is.

And, I do understand where you're coming from because in in the in the cultures that you come from, divorce is not a not a not a thing. It's not it's extremely it's it happens, but it's extremely uncommon. Whereas America, it's actually extremely common. So the breakup, the breakdown, I would say, of the family is very common in America. And you're you're not the only person from a foreign land who recognizes that.

我常聽到世界各地的外國人這麼說。這是個問題。而且是的，沒錯。這在美國也是個問題。你說得對。

你覺得理所當然，因為你覺得，嗯，父母在一起，你知道，這就是生活本來的樣子。你不用工作。就是這樣。而且，我認為身為美國人，有些東西我們擁有，我們卻視之為理所當然。你懂嗎？

您覺得在美國生活還有哪些不好的地方？我不會說有很多不好的地方。我一定會說一些我沒注意到的，或是說我認為有問題的地方，像是把喝酒當成逃避的方式。所以，我真不知道在埃及的家鄉，那裡有很多無家可歸的人。那裡有四個窮人。

However, they you a % know that they're on the street trying to find a job or trying to wash a car or begging to wash a car or begging to help you out with groceries to get some money out of your help you park so you can give them anything. So they're not really standard in the street just because they, are misguided, but more because just of how a poor, economy it is. However, here, you can really notice that, I would say more of addiction mentality. When you have a lot of accessible bad things that are easily accessible to you, there's going to be a lot of people that really get misguided. You said it.

Because it's accessible. Yeah. Because it's everywhere, and it's common, and it's not socially bad. That's the key thing. It's not socially bad, and that is the difference between here and a lot of other other places in the world.

We're not the only place, but, yeah, you you said a lot right there. It is not socially acceptable definitely where you are in a few other places in the world, well, where you're from rather. And what are some what are some good things about, that you like in particular about US that you haven't already said? Oh, oh, I love I love the mentality of how people here are very, hungry. So Mhmm.

They have very strong endurance. What I mean by endurance is the idea that, let's say the working thing. Let's say students are would be working or studying all year long, and then in summer, instead of just having a summer break, they take the opportunity to to find a job and to try to work more. And I kinda appreciate that. That raises the sense of responsibility from a really young age.

不。說得好，非常好。如果我沒來這裡，我可能會認識很多很多我認識的人。從耐力的角度來看，我覺得自己做的事情和住在家鄉時完全一樣。我的意思是，你必須具備多維度的能力。

Multi dimension means you you are above average in many, characteristics about your life. School and work isn't the main two aren't the only two things you're good at. You have to really be dedicated to finding, a a a strong social environment. You're not I was never the type of person that would be studying for twelve hours at home. I would find that very, to some degree, unnecessary time.

You could be investing that time in something else. For example, like, as I said, having a very strong social circle means you have opportunities for leadership, joining organizations. Social. Charity organizations. That's not something you really do back home.

也就是說，我在我的書房裡經常注意到這一點，有很多俱樂部可以組織活動。例如兄弟會和姊妹會，多年來一直做很多慈善事業。嗯。所以這些主要是由學生組織的。在國內，你甚至通常不會被要求這麼做。

實習，這也是你在這裡要做的事情，就像在那個階段一樣。我真正喜歡的，就是在這裡長大，嗯，在我上學期間，我見過很多與一般大學生截然不同的人。明白嗎？你這是什麼意思？我非常尊重這一點。

They're What do you mean by that? Oh, like like, not a typical college students that they're not in their twenties anymore. They're people late in their thirties, and they're joining pharmacy school and their moms or fathers. And I kinda respect that because you just you you you develop that idea that, hey. I actually wanna do something better in my life, and I wanna go back to school.

It's not too late for me. I need to go back, and I need to accept that. And you have now you have a family. You have multiple struggles, and you're still being able to to compete. This is something that, hey, you need to be acknowledged for because this is not easy.

No. You're you're a % right. And that's less likely back home. Right? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I know what it is. Don't accept the idea that you go back you or, like, you you take a gap year. That's something very forbidden, or you're wasting your time.

所以，三十多歲再回大學讀書，簡直就是在浪費時間。是啊，你說得對。你完全正確。我之前真的沒這麼想過。

Let me ask you another question. You speak English fluently very well, obviously, but when did you did you learn English while you were in Saudi Arabia? So you were able to speak it when you came here? Well Oh, yeah. This is something people always ask me about how my English is is is fluent to some degree and and I think it's mainly just because of my school.

However, though, I I never really spoke English with my friends. It would just be something in class or when you're studying. But yeah. Ever since I came here, like communication has to be English all the time. Even with my friends that can speak Arabic, I really communicate to them English all the time and I feel that that just is something better.

That's another point that we should get into is your circle. What type of people you should be going and being friends with when you're in a foreign country. Because I feel that the biggest mistake that I see people here doing is they try to find people with the same background and they stick with them. They never try to to get outside of their comfort zone. That's a really big mistake here because I feel that the biggest the strongest thing in in a group is versatility.

The more versatile a group is, the more unique they are. Mhmm. Because now you have, like, you have a Justice League. You have Batman, Superman, you have this. They're all different now.

是的，是的，是的。所以我完全同意你的觀點，而且我認為你的觀點很有道理，這正好引出了我接下來要問你的問題。所以，這是一個非常有道理的觀點。

Our circles are very important, and it's so important to be around people who are not like us. And quite frankly, people have heard I've said this publicly many times. One of the reasons why I loved teaching English as a second language, and you always find me around foreigners, meaning people who weren't born in America, because I have something to learn from you. And I love talking to people from other cultures because they're gonna teach me something I don't know. And I love studying humans.

And it's something I've learned is that no matter what culture you're from, at the end of the day, we're all still human and want some of the same things. And so, yeah, your circle really matters. So what you're saying is that you it's important that you don't just hang around people who came from the same trailer park you grew up in or went to the same country club or whatever absolutely you're going to be speaking the same language that you grew up with you're not gonna enhance your English you're not gonna I I genuinely feel that the strong understanding the strong asset for me of actually understanding the American culture and and how joking goes around and how, people communicate here. Like, you can never learn the slang until you really are able to to communicate to people in that sort of way. This is how you build up a report with others throughout your career.

And if I haven't done so much of this when I was 19 and 20, I wouldn't have been able to to get many, like, successful opportunities in other areas in a career itself just because of based on how you're able to communicate with people. Because you know what's possible? It is so noticeable to see somebody that is not from The US, and you're able to know that they're not from The US just because of how they're able to interact and engage. I can tell you as an American, grew up in America, but has also worked with a lot of foreigners in different capacity in my life. That is a % true.

I can usually pick out the foreigner in a room for many, many reasons and not always physical looks. Most of it's not physical look. It's mostly behavior. It's mostly behavior, and and body body, language and things like that. You can usually pick out.

There's especially certain countries I can pick people out, and sometimes I scare people because I'm able to tell them exactly where they're from without them opening their mouths. And they're just like, how'd you know that? I'm like, I've been around y'all. Yeah. And it's easy to be that person that, oh, he's physically he doesn't look like he's from The US, but he's engaged in sort of way that he probably lived here all his life, which is good enough for me.

I like to be a as long as I live here all of America. Okay. Yeah. That could be true. Yeah.

That that's true too. But you that's a choice that someone has to make to and even if it was an American going over to China or going over to Russia or wherever you're gonna go, we would still need to follow that same principle and engage with, you know, engage with the people around us and learn their nuances and, and how they get along and how can I integrate with these people around me because you're going to gain more you're gonna gain more from people who are not like you than from the people who are like you that's true in every aspect of life I I find I % agree with that having an open mind that even you know what? Even a lot of the things here, I wouldn't have known the bad stuff unless if I surrounded myself with it to some degree. You know what I'm talking about? So I wouldn't have known, addiction and all of that unless I've seen it with my own eyes that happens to people that I that I can see in in front of me.

I'm not just talking about, like, an oh, just noticing, any homeless person on the street. No. No. No. I'm talking about people in the same criteria as I am, friends of mine that somehow lost their way due to to excessive, partying or, excessive direct consumption that they're like they become they lose their track.

This is what I can see where okay. I knew this person from who they are, when they were fine, but now they engaged in so much partying and that affected them and that distracted them from their goals, and they can't take it back to their normal self anymore. So you're trying to this is what I'm saying about just as how accessible it is. You can and you're surrounded with with it. It makes you somehow open minded that Mhmm.

You are able to engage in these certain, like circumstances. And this is where you're able to learn and notice and see where people are different in in these in these situations. But, yes, if people are just around their own same circle, they never learn how to how to adapt. And I feel that to some degree, you are never going to be certain amount of time. Progress is are speaking from my mind.

我想你已經進入了我的大腦，你提取了這些訊息，因為你真的在用我的語言說話，因為這是我一直教的東西。向周圍的人學習。這樣做非常重要，因為如果你身邊只有你的雙胞胎，你就會變得非常狹隘。你知道，那些和你想法一樣的人，就像一個有著相同背景的群體，就是這樣。我現在想讓你對觀眾講話。

Young college students. Just don't even talk to me. Talk directly to them right now. Well, honestly, I if if if you're an international student in general, I want you to be hungry to this new challenge. If you are not excited to come in here when you're still back home, then this might not be appropriate for you.

You have to really be hungry, and you can see that this is a new challenge, but, hey, I can see myself doing it. This is the mindset I need you to be taking. And coming here, it's like genuinely going into Disneyland where you don't know where to start, which game to play, but I wanna play them all. And you're gonna have to figure out a certain desire because now it's not only about school, now it's all about life. I'm gonna start learning how to do laundry on my own and manage food as well and I'm at some point I have to manage finances because I can't be eating out all the time.

如果你很注重自己的外表，你也應該把這一點融入整體運動中。所以現在你需要平衡眼前的很多事情。你平衡得越多，你就越成功。我見過的每個成功人士現在的壓力都比他們不成功的時候更大。你承受的壓力越大，你就越成功。這不應該發生，但事實往往如此。

There there are ways of changing that, but I do think that that it generally tends to be true because the more responsibility you have, the more likely you are to be stressed. The more important to you are. And if I have one phrase to say to people that come here is think about what what story am I going to tell to my to the future to the people I talk to in the future. I want this to be a great story. And for it to be a great story, there had to be a bigger dragon to slay.

這番話很有力，你說得完全正確。我想請你做一件不太尋常的事。現在，我想讓你給剛到這個國家的人，像你這樣的研究生，提一些簡短的建議。等等。但他們來自中東國家，我希望你先用阿拉伯語說，然後再用英語告訴我們你剛才說了什麼。

I want you to talk directly to them. In Arabic? Mhmm. They're just learning English, so Arabic is better for them right now. I'll go with some Egyptian Egyptian dialect.

Okay. Alright. Yeah. These are I I think I gave, like, three important factors, but I, initially said that you should really focus on your studies and then broaden your networks by engaging social activities wherever it is. However, you should never really forget who who you were raised back home, and that connects to your family values and your religious values.

Great advice. I wanna piggyback on the last thing you just said because I think it's something that sometimes I've seen, where people try to overstimulate into the culture they're coming into, and they completely just leave behind every single thing they were ever taught. And I don't think that that's a good idea. I think cultural differences are, in fact, absolutely beautiful. We should not all be the same.

And so no matter what country people are from, I love to see them stay connected in some kind of way, you know, some kind of way, at least, to their original culture, but especially language. Don't forget your original language. I don't care where in the world you're from. Don't care where you're from, what color you are. Don't forget your language.

這太重要了。當我看到來自其他國家的人，他們在這裡待了一段時間，卻說「我不記得怎麼講捷克語了。我不記得怎麼講西班牙語了，不管是什麼語言。」時，我會很失望。我覺得很沮喪。不。

I agree with you. I I feel like, the more confident I've become here when I've built some more social connections and actual genuine fadgets, the more I was able to speak with them in my own language and share with them a little bit more of my culture. Why? Because now I noticed that they're very curious and you know what's so funny? They were always very curious.

I was just a little bit shy to share that part and I just came here. Yeah. Yeah. It's understandable. Everybody's curious here.

You live in a very you live in a country where it's it's global within itself. Good point. The US is very global. The US has people from all around the world and it influences people all around the world. And I love the fact that I know this is not very common to say, but I am real like, when when people think I ever get any mistreatment just because of where I'm from or if I'm not American or anything Mhmm.

I honestly I always say, and this is some justice to say, I've never really been any, misjudged or any sort of racism against me in some sort of way. Maybe I'm too much of an open minded person, but I always felt that it was just because of my attitude and my vibe that I give out to people that I'm giving you so much respect that you can't even think of one thing negative to say about me. I'm gonna say I'm surprised if you say you haven't experienced racism, but I'm not surprised because of the second half of what said. You are right. When we carry ourselves in certain ways, it tends to override that sort of ignorance.

Because they're like, okay. Because I've dealt with people like that too, who you you just know that they're racist. But then when it comes to me, they don't behave that way because I very quickly show that, you know, I have class. I'm articulate that I, you know, I I'm not about the BS. And, and it does make a difference.

不過，奧馬爾，謝謝你來。和你聊天很開心。我喜歡這樣的談話，因為我總是能學到新東西。今天我從你那裡學到了一些新東西，我討厭這種感覺，但我喜歡。所以，再說一次，哦，當然。

Thank you. Thank you, Fatima. It's my pleasure talking to you. And, if there's anything your audience ever wants, I'm more than glad that they can contact me, and and I'm really excited for for for this episode. It's been a very pleasure to talk to you overall.

謝謝。謝謝。現在讓我們換個角度思考一下。我想帶大家回顧一下我們之前在本集節目中討論過的一個主題：你身邊的人是誰？這對你的成敗至關重要。

You heard Omar say it earlier, surround yourself with people who are different than yourself. The best way to keep your mind really small, really tiny and very imbalanced and more likely to be extreme is to only keep people around you who are just like you. If you want to grow, if you want to expand your thinking and expand your mind, you need to have people around you who are not just like you, who can offer a different perspective than what you already have. That is how may, how you maintain a balanced mindset. So just wanted to plant that thought seed today.

Who's around you? Are they all replicas of the same type of person? Or do you have enough of a variety that you can grow around them? Just something to think about. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast, please like, and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter.

如果您有任何評論、主題建議，或想成為本集節目的嘉賓，請造訪 FatimaBay.com/podcast。記住，改變思考的力量是無窮的。請關注下週節目。