Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome everyone. Today we have with with us Delisha Niami and she is in California. She's an author and an abuse survivor, and she has a very powerful perspective.

Some powerful words for you today. How are you doing today, Delisha? Great. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Well, thank you for coming on. And as you know, I like to dive right into it. And I'm gonna start off with reading a quote from you, that I thought is just so powerful. And you said it to me during our conversation and, I actually made a post on social media. We talk a lot in this country about drugs, crime, suicide, and mental health.

How much of that do you think would be non existent if we empowered kids from a younger age to know that they are not at fault and do not have to harbor the guilt and shame internally. And dives right into this conversation because you could not be more right with that. I think that quote just basically sums up a lot of what we're gonna talk about in this conversation. So, Delisha, why don't you briefly tell the audience, why are you so passionate about family secrets? Well, you know, I am passionate about it because I lived through it, and I understand how it affected me now.

After doing so much work and so much reading and learning so much about myself and really looking at myself through an open lens with an open mind and doing the therapy and doing the hard work, I've realized that, you know, not only have I gone through hell in my life and back, which I never realized before, But I I wanted to share my message because I I made it through. And not only did I make it through, but I made it through, and I'm happy. And I am thriving as a person. So as a human being, I'm a well adjusted individual, and I have friends, and I'm happy. And, you know, there's no no issue with that with with there is issue with what happened with me, but I've learned how to deal with it as a human being.

我已經學會瞭如何在創傷出現時應對它們，而且我透過各種方式學會了。所以我認為談論它、與人分享它很重要。我之所以這麼說，最重要的原因在於我覺得自己內化了許多羞恥感和罪惡感。我內心有很多惡魔，這些惡魔源自於發生在我身上的外在事件，源自於外在因素。所以，我想克服這些，並且能夠幫助他人，而我們做到這一點的方法，以及我們開始的方式，就是談論它。

And pedophilia is so taboo in this country. Nobody ever talks about it. And I wanna be a crusader for that, and I wanna start talking about it and and telling kids that they have the power internally to not not harbor that shame and guilt and know that it wasn't your fault. I mean, the first time I was ever molested, he didn't even have to touch me. So it was just he he made me watch him jack off, and it was just I was frozen.

我動彈不得。我一點也不享受，但我就是動不了。你懂嗎？這給我造成了無盡的心理創傷，而且越來越嚴重。我當時沒意識到自己被利用了，也沒意識到這一切。

And had somebody told me, had somebody talked to me about that, had I known, you know, that these things shouldn't be happening. You shouldn't be befriending somebody who, you know, is a almost a 40 year old man. That's not you know, a little girl walking down an alley by herself shouldn't be talking to strangers that are 40 years old. You know? And so I think in the at that time, it was the mid mid to late seventies, and it was a different era back then.

You know? Mhmm. And I think and I hope people talk to their kids more now. But, yeah, it was a different era back then, and I just think talking about it is so important. So to clarify, you you were you were, abused several times, not just by not just once.

You had ongoing abuse. Is is is that a good way to say it? I did. Yeah. Okay.

And so that became a family secret for you? I don't know if it was a family secret as much as it was an internal secret that I kept from my family. Okay. So because of the shame You're right. That's a better reason.

內心的羞愧和內疚，感覺都是我的錯，嗯。感覺好像我做錯了什麼，嗯。我害怕我媽不相信我。害怕可能是因為，你知道，最終，他們……我不想透露太多我的書，也不想太過魯莽，但是，就像《親吻瀝青》裡有一段，她最終和騷擾我的人成了朋友，我看到他們發生關係。這非常令人心痛。

Oh, wow. That's already traumatizing for me. It didn't even happen to me. Yeah. Very traumatizing.

所以，是的，我書中提到的觸發警告是真的。是的。那麼，對於現在在家庭中隱瞞秘密的人來說，也許他們之所以會隱瞞秘密，不僅是因為他們向家人隱瞞了秘密，也可能是因為他們家人根本不知道。有時，家庭內部會有秘密，而有些人確實知道。哪些跡象顯示發生了一些事情，顯示有人隱瞞了有害的秘密，或者說，這些秘密會對他們自己造成傷害，或會給他們帶來心理創傷？

有哪些跡象需要注意？這真的很難，真的很難知道，而且當它就在你面前時，真的很難知道。我給你舉個例子，我不會點名，但我得說，我生活中非常親近的人，我必須得說。我的姪子，你知道，他和我哥哥住在一起。我25歲的時候，哥哥試圖性騷擾我。

And I he got me drunk and I got passed out and I trusted him. It's another thing, like, we trust people that we can't always necessarily trust, but I trusted him. And this was a brother I just met when I was 15, so it wasn't like I know him. I grew up with him my whole life. But he he got me drunk and almost molested me with my nephew in the room.

And I didn't talk to him for, like, five years. And my whole relationship with my nephew was picking him up from his mother's house and spending time with my nephew that way. And I remember one time, it's gonna make me cry, but when my nephew was five, I went over and dropped him off for the weekend. And when my brother came to pick him up, he was screaming and crying. No.

No. No. No. No. I don't wanna go.

I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. And and he was, like, grabbing on to me, and I just thought maybe he just wanted to spend more time with me because we loved each other so much. And I didn't think anything of it.

And then after my brother died, when my nephew was 13, and his mother shared with him the fact that my brother got me drunk and tried to rape me, which was, I thought, so ironic to share with your kid at 13 years old. But I talked to him about that, and he told me, don't worry, auntie. I understand. And I said, what do you mean? And he said he did it to me too.

我說，你在開玩笑吧？他說，哦，我記得我三、四歲的時候。我當時就想，我的天哪。原來那時候就發生過這種事，我卻沒注意到。雖然我知道我哥哥是戀童癖，但我當時以為他只喜歡小女孩，你知道嗎？我和姪子都說沒關係，阿姨，這太瘋狂了。

And I'm like, no. I shoulda known with everything that I knew. With everything that I knew, I shoulda known. You know? And and I still kick myself for not doing something or saying something, but I I honestly I just it's so hard.

You know? It's so hard. So That's a big family secret. Yeah. No.

Well, it it was. So what happened to you, it sounds like the only person that knew was was his mother, or she knew because she told her. I don't know who else my brother might have told. Who knows? But his mom knew because I wasn't talking to him for five years, you know, because of it.

We didn't talk again until until, like, after my mom was killed. We ended up talking, and I took because I had to call him to tell him that my mom died. And, yeah. So then he he ended up changing, and it's all in the books. But yeah.

所以，我聽到您說，我最初的問題是，有哪些跡象？其中一個最明顯的跡像是孩子驚恐地尖叫著要跟著施虐者走。這很常見。我這麼說，不是為了讓喜歡走極端的人保持對話的平衡。這並不意味著每次孩子發脾氣就意味著有人在虐待他們。

不。但這次的情況比較特殊。很明顯他不想專門討論這個問題。對。不只是，不。

I don't wanna leave auntie or I don't wanna leave grandma because she makes best cookies. Not that that's a different kind of screaming, yelling than terror and fear. Please, please, please. No. No.

不。確實有差別，但你真的得了解孩子才能明白。所以，嗯，並非總是如此，但我認為大多數情況下都差不多。所以，對於正在聽的各位，我希望你們在反覆看到這一點時能聽出來。當你們看到這一點時，你們知道，這很重要。

But also when there is a change, and I've heard this from other abuse survivors. When there is a change, and I'm talking to the audience right now, there's all of a sudden a change in this person's you know, they were all happy go lucky before, and now they're just seem kind of depressed when they get around a certain person even if they're not screaming and yelling. Their behavior changes when they get around a certain person to go to a certain home. There's something about that person or home that is traumatizing or or really bad for them. And often, it's abuse of some sort.

May may not be sexual. It could be something else, but that is something that you wanna take a look at. Because some of these secrets, man. Alright. I have a question for you, Delicia.

別介意。我們從小就教育孩子不要允許某些事情發生，而不是等到他們成為受害者時才這麼做。我覺得絕對可以。我的意思是，如果你看看我姪子，他三、四歲的時候就開始犯這種事了，你知道，這也許很難，因為他們的小腦袋還沒發育完全。那麼，你該如何讓他們理解這樣的事情呢？

Maybe they don't. Maybe there's a way. I don't know, man. It would be really cool to write, like, a like, a book for kids that, like, somehow makes them aware without, like, damaging their I don't know. It's it's it's a very delicate balance.

It is, but I'm gonna chime in right here, and state my very strong opinion on this topic. Talk to your kids. I don't care how old they are. Talk to them about molestation and rape. Don't wait until it happens to them.

很多時候，我和很多受害者談過。很多時候，這些對話都是事後才進行的。這就是問題所在。問題是，如果你不解決這個問題，這個問題就會在為時已晚之前降臨到你的孩子身上。到那時就太晚了。

沒錯。他們兩歲的時候不懂事。你跟兩歲的孩子說話的時候，他們可能也會這樣。你不知道他們在做什麼。你沒必要把那些大詞都說出來。

You just simply say nobody touches you here. Don't, you know, don't let any adult show you their private parts. It could be as simple as that. Because I promise you, if you don't have those conversations with the children, the molesters are waiting for you to not have the conversation so they could be the one to introduce them to something and make them think it's normal. Or don't let any adult touch you in any manner that makes you feel uncomfortable in any way.

You you need to have those conversations. You can put your own words to it because all of us don't talk the same, and that's fine. Put your own wording to that. But It's super important. To parents.

Put your own wording to that. But parents are guardians because not all kids are living with their parents. So if you're a guardian, I don't care who you trust, make sure that child is prepared. I will personally talk about my own experience with that. I was never molested, but I do believe a large part of why I was never molested because my mother ingrained in us, don't you let nobody touch you here.

Before Good for her. I was even eight years old, I already knew that those were off limits. And if anybody ever did a try even attempted to do anything, I already knew how to react. And I do think that it would have happened to me because I could think of a couple instances if my mother hadn't already prepared my mind for it. She didn't go into all graphic details because she didn't need to.

I was little. But all of you that think your kids are too little for stuff, our society doesn't think they're too little for it. At two years old, they're watching sex on your phone, even though you think they're not. It's shoved in their face. Don't wait until the abusers catch them.

讓你的孩子做好準備，因為無論你願不願意，他們都會來找你。我知道這很難聽，但我希望你…我想告訴你真相，因為我希望你做好準備。我對這個話題非常熱衷，因為我見過太多受害者，如果這件事真的發生了，他們的反應會不一樣。它不會阻止一切。它不會阻止所有人。

但我想說的是，這確實能帶來改變。孩子至少會知道他們遭受了不公正的對待，而不是自己承擔罪責，認為自己做錯了什麼，或者覺得自己是個蕩婦，或者別人說他們是垃圾。好了，我的演講到此結束。好的。

我同意你的看法。我不得不這麼說，因為我覺得這很重要。我完全同意你的說法。除非我們開始討論，否則我們不會改變現狀。我們必須開始討論。

你知道嗎？我現在有個問題想問你。如果有人現在正在聽，那他們肯定經歷過虐待。現在虐待已經停止了，但他們從未告訴任何人。一切都結束了嗎？

Should they just continue to keep it a secret? I mean, I guess it depends on the person. For me, it wouldn't be over. Personally, I can only speak for myself. But, like, if that were my situation, no.

我完全不這麼認為。我內心還是會感到羞恥和內疚。我是說，嘿，聽著。我的施虐者其實在我第一次被診斷出患有克隆氏症的時候就來過醫院。

This is in the second book, not my circus. And he apologized to me Oh, wow. About, like, a deep heartfelt, sincere apology Oh, okay. Knowing that he probably had something to do with the fact that I had Crohn's disease and Oh, wow. The stress levels that he caused me, and he it was I remained friends with him because he was like a father figure to me.

It was a very strange dichotomy to love your abuser in that way. You know? Mhmm. But I I think that had I not had those conversations, I wouldn't have been able to heal as much. And I've also done plant medicine, which is gonna be talked about in the third book, where I've my brother was in the room with me, but I've I've done plant medicine where he said he felt like the cops were gonna come, and it sounded like there was a triple homicide going on in there.

He had never heard the guttural screams coming out of me like he had heard before. And when I when I came out of it, I didn't have a voice. And I said, I don't know why I'm hoarse, and they both started laughing because and then when I started thinking about it days later, I realized that, like, I think and this might be really weird, but I think I went to the underworld where all of my molesters are already dead. And I just, like, unleashed my rage on them, like, in a major way. And it was, like, you know, my brother, my main molester, and my uncle, and I just unleashed on them.

我想就是這樣，即使我做了那麼多努力，做了那麼多治療，我仍然對發生在我身上的事，以及我遭受如此嚴重侵犯的事實，心中充滿了難以置信的憤怒。你懂嗎？你懂嗎？那之後我感覺有什麼不同嗎？我想，我感覺我對那件事的憤怒少了一些。

It was more about getting that rage out. Like, I let them know how I felt about what they did to me and that it was not cool and that, you know, basically, they could all go f themselves. And I just, you know, I really just let them have it, and it and it felt great to be able to do that. And that release is important, and and everybody doesn't need to release in the same way. No.

But that release is important because you just answered that. The question I asked was if something is you know, something happened a long time ago, it's in the past, Should we confront them, or does it still affect us? And the answer is absolutely still affects us. And I will add to that 100% of the time it still affects you until you deal with it. I always say if you don't deal with the issue, the issues will deal with you.

And until you deal with the issue, the issue is already dealing with you. It's already affecting your life. It's already affecting your relationship. It's even affecting your job because it's affecting how you think. And until you deal with it, how you whether or not you need to confront and how you confront, that's gonna be different.

And, again, I'm talking to the audience with this piece. It's gonna be different for each one of us. I agree with Delisha in that each one of you, the answer is gonna be slightly different. But burying it because it's it it it would happen a long time ago, so it's over. It's not over until you confront it 100% of the time.

除非你用某種方式去面對，否則一切都不會結束。如果你無法面對，你可能需要把它寫下來。你可能需要去那種地方，你管那叫什麼？那種控制憤怒的方式，你只會毀掉一些東西，直到把憤怒發洩出來。哦，那是休息室。

Yes. That's what they're calling. I've done them before. And it it's okay to do something like that, but we all need to do something like that because those secrets that we're hold that you're holding on to, they're they're doing more damage than you realize because that damage is internal. Just because you're smiling on the outside, you might have money, you might have fame, you might have status, you might be okay on the outside or so it seems, it's affecting you on the inside because it's still eating you.

And that's so important. So I did that for a long time. Fake it till you make it. You you you can. But once we once we face once we actually face that demon in the face Mhmm.

That's when we can be begin to climb over what we've been under. That's right. That sounds like that's what happened for you. I'm sorry. Say it again?

When the real healing begins. Ex exactly. And that sounds like that's what happened for you. So you you were you've referred to your book a couple of times. So tell us, what it is that you do, and how can people find you?

我寫了一個名為「堅韌的AF」的回憶錄三部曲系列，第一本叫做「親吻瀝青」。它已經出版，有各種格式，包括有聲讀物，你可以在Apple Books等各種平台上找到它。同樣，下一本書叫做“不是我的馬戲團”，有聲讀物也即將推出，但目前其他格式都有，但可能要過幾個月才能推出。有聲書即將推出。第三本書，也是該系列的最後一本，叫做“烏雲背後的幸福線女王”，我希望它能在明年三月我生日那天出版。

And you can find me at DeliciaNiami.com, which is delicianiami.com, or Delicia Niami author on Instagram and, on Facebook. I'm I'm as as many places and on TikTok too. So All of that is on her website, deletion, deletionniami.com, which will be in the podcast description, or show notes. And, there's so much more I wanted to to to really kinda talk about in this podcast, but we wanna keep it to a reasonable attention span. So, we're ending it here, but I hope that all of you heard some of you only heard a teeny, teeny, tiny piece of her story, actually.

還有很多。所以我建議你去看看她的書。裡面細節更多，內容也更多，我想你會想坐下來讀。她還有很多話要說，而且她非常熱衷於幫助別人走出創傷。而且，我只想再說一遍，那些觸發警告是真的，因為它們確實觸發了一些人，我認為這是好的方面。

So I mean, one guy told me who apparently had a way worse life than me, he had been locked in a basement and abused and all this stuff. And he goes and I and I never mentioned therapy once in my first book, and he only read my first book. And he goes, and he's older than I am, and he goes, you know, I never thought about therapy until I read your book. Wow. Wow.

它只是展現了它有多有效，這就是我喜歡的。我喜歡這一點。我強烈建議你們都唸讀她的書。如你所見，她非常直白，只是你需要慢慢體會。但我認為，了解她的故事和她所經歷的一切，就能產生強大的力量。即使你沒有像她那樣遭受虐待，我仍然認為她的故事能讓你有所收穫。

So thank you again, Delisha, for for coming on, and we appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And now for a mind shifting moment, I want to plant this thought seed in your head today. What secrets are you holding?

And then I want you to answer the next question. Are they doing damage? I promise you, if you really examine the answer to that, it is always yes. What kind of damage it's doing and to whom? That's gonna be different for each of us.

But secrets are damaging when we're holding back the things that we need to be talking about so we can deal with. And although they may be painful, although they may be uncomfortable, the freedom and release that comes after they come out outweighs all of that. Just think about that. Thank you for listening to Mindshift Power Podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter.

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