Fatima Bey: 0:01

Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the only international podcast focused on teens, connecting young voices and perspectives from around the world. Get ready to explore the issues that matter to today's youth and shape tomorrow's world. I'm your host, fatima Bey the MindShifter, and welcome everyone. Today we have with us Erica Bess, the Trauma Master. She is a licensed therapist. She has over 12 years of experience as a social worker and therapist. She also owns Empower Therapy and she specializes in trauma, and you have heard her before and you will hear her again. How are you doing today, erica?

艾麗卡貝斯：0:45

I'm doing well. How are you, Fatima?

Fatima Bey: 0:47

I'm good. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I think it's extremely relevant and something that people just don't talk about.

艾莉卡貝斯：0:53

Absolutely your specialty.

Fatima Bey: 0:56

事實上，這是我們兩個專業領域的結合。

艾莉卡貝斯：0:59

Definitely.

法蒂瑪先生：1:00

讓我們先來定義一下什麼是「可以接受的文化」。好的，讓我們先來定義一下什麼是「可以接受的文化」。文化涵蓋了各種信仰、價值、傳統、行為，所有這些加在一起，塑造了我們的世界觀。這就是文化。現在，身為一個美國人，我正身處美國文化之中。我了解許多其他文化，但我們今天談論的是文化，哦，它與青少年息息相關。但這個主題對青少年來說尤其重要，因為我們現在所處的世界以及我們未來的發展方向。我想指出的是，僅僅因為一個人來自某個國家，並不代表他們來自同一種文化。例如，艾麗卡來自布魯克林，她來自紐約市，我來自明尼蘇達州中西部的明尼阿波利斯。我們都來自美國，但我們的文化截然不同。我們的文化截然不同。我們雖然身處同一個國家，但文化卻截然不同。另一個例子是紐約市，沒錯，是紐約州，紐約州的任何地方都可以。然後，我們和德州一樣，雖然身處同一個國家，但文化差異卻非常大。

Fatima Bey: 2:18

Let me tell you guys something about Switzerland. Do you know Switzerland? They have officially four languages as their national languages. I believe Italian is one, but the two that I remember the most is French and German. They're on opposite ends of Switzerland, they're in different parts of Switzerland. Look at a map and that makes sense. Look at the countries at their border, but do you think that their cultures are the same in those two areas? They're not At all. They're not. They're too different.

Fatima Bey: 2:49

And look at India. We think of India. Most people outside of India well, let me rephrase that Most Americans, who are very ignorant about most of Asia, think of India as one culture and one people. And that is so silly to me, because I understand India has hundreds of languages. Some are big and some are small. Not everybody speaks Hindi. There are people that speak English. There are people that speak no English at all. They have so many different cultures and languages within their borders. Just because a country has a title and a name doesn't mean the people within it are all the same, and that is something that people often think about. That people often assume incorrectly, right, right? So now, now that I explained all of that, that is very relevant to the rest of this conversation. I just wanted to put that understanding out there. So, erica of this conversation, I just wanted to put that understanding out there. So, erica, right now talk about the impact of cultural background on trauma. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Erica Bess: 3:52

Absolutely so a lot of times. Cultural backgrounds obviously that comes from generations before us and it shapes how we think, it shapes the things that we do and a lot of times it forms our morals and it sometimes makes us look at the world through a different lens because of the people that came before us. It shapes how we look at things as well. So a lot of times when you're coming from a traumatized background, you have a tendency to look at things from a traumatized standpoint, because not that you to look at things from a traumatized standpoint, because not that you've necessarily gone through that trauma, but people that have reared you and have reared the people that have reared you have gone through trauma.

艾麗卡貝斯：4:34

And then you pick up that mindset and kind of look at things from a hypervigilant standpoint or just very just on edge most of the time and you become traumatized through that, you know. And then you're going to experience your own trauma as well, but this is your generational trauma that's having an effect on you.

Fatima Bey: 4:52

I'm going to give an example of my own, my own personal family, my grandmother. Now I'm African-American, I'm Black. My grandmother grew up she was born in the I think the 30s I forget how long ago but my grandmother grew up Black, was born in the I think the 30s I forget how long ago, but my grandmother grew up black in America, so naturally she grew up during Jim Crow. She grew up. I remember constantly hearing from my grandmother stuff about white people, why she was traumatized by what she had gone through, what that whole generation well generations went through as black people in america right and she constantly had it in her head, the separation of black and white.

Fatima Bey: 5:38

Now, because I grew up in minneapolis and I am part white because my mother's half white, I I grew up in Minneapolis I didn't grow up with that mindset at all because in Minneapolis, where I grew up, it was the opposite, like the idea of it was just the opposite. So we didn't yeah, I didn't grow up with that sort of a, that sort of trauma. Racism is built into American culture. It still exists and it still is. We've been working on it but we haven't arrived yet. So it still is. So that impacted my grandmother's worldview and she was a sweetheart, she was hilarious Don't piss her off which is I inherited her genes.

艾莉卡貝斯：6:24

好吧，我正想這麼說呢。你直接從我嘴裡說出來，就像“哦，你像你奶奶，好嗎？”

Fatima Bey: 6:30

我一直很溫柔體貼，直到你觸動我的心弦。那你最好搬出城，躲起來你的家人，去做整形手術，改名換姓。這就是我的全部要求。所以，無論如何，不，但真的。但我祖母以前總是這麼說，我和我姐姐會毫不在意，因為我們理解她的想法？

艾麗卡貝斯：6:48

She's coming from a traumatized point of view.

Fatima Bey: 6:50

But let's talk about being Black in America. We are still traumatized by that.

艾莉卡貝斯：6:56

Right, we have our own each level of traumatization of that experience.

Fatima Bey: 7:01

It becomes less and less with each generation if we work at it. Yes, but trauma and I'm using the example of Black America because that's what we both are and we understand but this is true for people in China, people who went through older generations that were under Mao Zedong. They think differently than this younger generation. They were traumatized by some of that stuff, you know, the the uh, uh, just oh, so much stuff. They were traumatized by that and they pass that down to other people.

Fatima Bey: 7:36

I know a friend who her she's, she's a white American. Her grandmother, her grandparents, they went through the great depression. Her grandmother, her grandparents, they went through the great depression, so they had a mindset of salvage everything, save everything, wrap everything in plastic don't. They didn't have this wasteful right, didn't have this wasteful mindset that we now have. I just know that. I just remember us having this conversation about it. Uh, the generational differences, and actually that's what we were talking about. But for her they were traumatized and that trauma got passed on to her parents. They were taught to be, I would say, overly cautious. It's good to be wise, it's good to be frugal, but they were overly cautious because of the trauma of the Great Depression. Right, that makes sense to me. So I'm just giving examples that we can all relate to from where I am as an American.

Fatima Bey: 8:35

但如果你身處另一個國家，你一定經歷過戰爭的創傷。我在這個國家結識了來自世界各地的人。我非常喜歡這個國家。我永遠不會忘記的其中一個國家是波斯尼亞戰爭。我忘了它發生的時間。我記得是90年代末。大概是90年代的某個時候，所以請原諒我，我不記得具體是哪一年了，但我和經歷過那場戰爭的人一起工作過。

Fatima Bey: 8:59

It permanently traumatized them. They never were the same after that, traumatized them. They never were the same after that, and they shared personal stories with me. Some of them shared stories with me that had never come out of their mouth to anyone before, and I felt very honored and humbled by that. But I was also wowed. I don't even know what word to give it but it affected them. And then you have to. You went through this war and now you come over to America, to this totally different culture where people other you because you don't speak English yet, and just how do you react to that? So my point in saying all that is cultural background affects your trauma as well, because it's not just you know. As Erica said before, trauma affects your worldview period, but then couple that with your cultural background, right, that makes it worse.

艾莉卡貝斯：9:51

So, talking, about Definitely intensifies.

Fatima Bey: 9:54

是的，它會加劇。它實際上會使情況變得更糟，因為它會讓你不願意尋求所需的幫助。但我們稍後會討論這個問題。讓我們來談談“微侵犯”，因為我認為人們並不一定理解“微侵犯”。我們經常使用這個詞，但除了美國黑人之外，並沒有足夠的例子。好吧，因為這是我唯一一次聽到有人談論“微侵犯”，你如何定義“微侵犯”，Erica？

Erica Bess: 10:24

A statement, an action or an incident regarded as an incident of indirect, subtle or unintentional discrimination against members of a marginalized group, such as racial or ethnic minorities.

法蒂瑪先生：10:39

就是這樣。所以我舉了一些例子。我為這集節目舉了一些例子，在這個例子中，這些是針對厭女社會中的女性發表的言論。我想稍微談一下。當人們想到厭女社會時，大多數至少是美國人，我不知道美國以外的情況，但在美國，人們經常將其與穆斯林社區聯繫起來。

Erica Bess: 11:13

Yes.

Fatima Bey: 11:14

But that is so narrow it is, and it is, yeah, it's definitely true in some Islamic countries. There's so much more than that, but it's so much. It's definitely true in some, in some islamic countries absolutely so much more than that, but it's so much, it's not just them yeah I would say this is an issue in much of africa, much of asia, almost all of eastern europe I think it's probably in all parts of the world it's it, yeah, more than others, but those are the top places I can think of.

Fatima Bey: 11:43

I'm sure there's other places that I'm not naming because I just don't know them, but those are the ones that come to the top of my head. So don't just think of oh, you're talking about people in the Middle East. No, there I can name certain countries, like Ecuador, for example. They're known for that. There are many countries in the and that's over. On this side of the world. There are many countries in the world for which, for whom this is an issue where the misogyny is built into their culture. It's baked in as much as racism is baked into America, and it does affect how they deal with their trauma. So I'm going to read these statements You're so pretty, you don't need to be smart. Fatima theoretically reaches out and smacks that person upside the head. Now, people actually say stupid statements like that to women. They really do.

Erica Bess: 12:32

And expect them to feel confident.

Fatima Bey: 12:34

沒錯。你能應付得了？對女人來說，這可是個大挑戰，抱歉。這些愚蠢的言論真的讓人忍不住想笑。哦，這主意不錯，不過我們來聽聽男人們是怎麼想的。這可是全世界的女人都聽過的真實說法。還有一點，你應該穿得更端莊一些，以免引起不必要的注意。

Erica Bess: 12:58

Oh, my goodness.

Fatima Bey: 12:59

This is what people say in rape culture. I'm just saying that's a real statement that gets said to people in cultures where rape is blamed on the woman.

Erica Bess: 13:08

I had that happen to me just at work when I was about 14, 15 years old. I was dressed in business attire because my school wanted us to learn how to prepare for interviews and going forward with being in the corporate world.

Fatima Bey: 13:23

So on.

Erica Bess: 13:23

每週一我們都要穿，你知道，職業裝。一個怪人走進我工作的圖書館，對我說了一些不合適的話，我告訴了圖書館員。最後他們報了警。警察說我才14、15歲，也許你不該穿得這麼成人。那樣的話，男人不會對你說什麼。我當時想，先生，我上的學校是為我的職業生涯做準備的，培養我的職業素養。我穿的這身衣服並沒有什麼不合適的。你怎麼敢這麼說我？

Fatima Bey: 13:57

That was just promoting a victim culture Like yeah, it's crazy, yeah, and this happens around the world, in different cultures more so than others, but it's, it's disgusting, it really is. But my point in bringing up those microaggressions is that sometimes we don't recognize our cultural biases. Let me rephrase that, because it's not just about cultural bias Sometimes we don't recognize the bad things in our culture the misogyny, the racism, the ageism, whatever it is in your particular culture, because every culture has their own thing, right. But sometimes we don't recognize the things that are in our culture that actually make our trauma 10 times worse, right? Imagine being raped and then being told a stupid ass statement like that.

Erica Bess: 14:55

Yeah.

法蒂瑪先生：14:57

那麼，你肯定會比現在更自責。沒錯，那麼，你一定會比現在更自責。沒錯。所以，有時候，我們說話的方式，對人，很重要。尼日利亞人很重要，牙買加人很重要，中國人也很重要。我只是隨便挑了幾個文化，但你們都明白我的意思。我們如何處理別人經歷的事情真的很重要。這很重要，因為我們會讓別人變得更糟。艾麗卡，跟他們解釋一下，這些話其實是如何加重創傷的。

艾莉卡貝斯：15:36

It can just intensify what you're already experiencing from that trauma and just chip away at your self-esteem. And when your self-esteem is being chipped away at, it makes your foundation unsteady. And then you doubt everything that you have going for yourself and then you just maybe even self-sabotage because you just don't think that you're worth anything good or you can't accomplish anything great. And then you cut yourself out of opportunities because you just don't see yourself in that light, because you've allowed that traumatic mindset to overcome you Right, you can't fly.

Fatima Bey: 16:15

And also I want to talk about being judgmental when it comes to other cultures. So this podcast is an international podcast for teens and anything that affects their future. This subject affects their future because we need teenagers. Listen up, we need you to be better than us, my generation and the generation before we've left you a mess for real. I feel like we. I feel like we've left you a mess and I'm speaking in general terms actually easier for you to be compassionate, it's easier for you to gain a better understanding of bigger picture things and make better decisions in your own life, absolutely Because understanding other people's cultures is a way to break the cycle.

Fatima Bey: 17:16

Yes, thank you, erica, for saying that. Can you explain how?

Erica Bess: 17:20

確實如此。是的，謝謝你，Erica，你這麼說。嘿，我朋友家不這樣做，我以為這很正常。然後你可能會意識到，哦，也許這並不那麼正常。這會讓你質疑自己經歷過的事情，拓展你的視野，讓你能夠理解他人，接納他們，學會包容他們，無論他們之間有什麼差異，這也是我們創造團結的方式。

法蒂瑪先生：18:07

Yes, and especially for young women, if you come from a culture that's misogynistic in any kind of way, because there are varying degrees of it. So every misogynistic country culture is not the same, so please also understand that. But if you come from a culture where women are secondary in any kind of way, you are already thinking in ways that are self-sabotaging and you don't even realize it because it's ingrained in you. It's important to be around people that are different than you. Now again, if you're listening, I have a challenge for you. I want you to get to know someone who's totally different. If you are in Japan and there's some Africans or Black Americans or somebody near you that you don't know, get to know them. You've never met any before. Get to know them. If you are white American, you come from a racist family, redneck, whatever word you want to call it get to know a black person who grew up in the hood.

Erica Bess: 19:10

yeah, right and keep an open mind, because you don't want those micro aggressions to come out like really have an open mind and get to know the person for who they are you're going to find out that you're a lot more like them than you think.

Fatima Bey: 19:22

exactly that's something I've learned through observation, having worked with, actually, both of those communities from a supervisory standpoint Right.

Erica Bess: 19:30

You might find your best friend.

Fatima Bey: 19:32

是的，真的，真的。但差異是什麼並不重要。差異不一定是種族，也可能是文化差異。你們可能是同一個種族，但文化不同。你在東北長大，你只了解東北人的思考方式。有些人來自美國南方腹地。去了解他們，因為他們的文化也不同。不只是種族問題。去了解和你不同的人。這會拓展你的視野，讓你能夠和周遭的人交流，和那些經歷創傷的人交流。讓我重新表達一下「經歷過創傷的年輕人」這個詞。

Erica Bess: 20:22

And tell them how they can deal with them or help. Well, in order to deal with the youth that are traumatized, they're going to have to be able to get a support system and most times nine times out of 10, there is no support system for them. So I would like to offer my services to them and, even if it's for a consultation, just to talk to somebody and reach out and connect with ericabestcom, they can reach me there. They need to be able to have people that they can trust and look up to and feel safe talking about what they've experienced.

Erica Bess: 21:00

And, like you said, with the misogynistic tendencies within a lot of the cultures and I'll use rape as an example how many women do you think are, like, just so afraid to come forward or even say that somebody did something to them, because of fear of being shamed for even being assaulted, you know. So there's a lot of girls out there that are sitting and holding their trauma deep down and they're trying to keep it stuffed down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, deep down and they're trying to keep it stuff down, but it's affecting, I'm sure, every aspect of their life. And what needs to happen is a culture shift so that the women feel comfortable speaking up and that the men actually get some control in themselves as well. It's not just the women.

Fatima Bey: 21:46

Yeah, no, exactly. I want to add something for the young women specifically. I'm talking to young women right now, for the young women that are out there that you don't have anybody you can talk to. You don't have that support system. You don't have you. You are afraid to talk about what you know. Like Erica just said, you're afraid to talk about what's happened to you and you have nobody to talk to. If you can get a call to America and talk to Erica, you should, because one thing I can tell you about both of us we are not interested in trying to Americanize you. You could be Muslim, we understand that. You could be from Bulgaria, we don't care.

Erica Bess: 22:31

Right.

法蒂瑪先生：22:32

There are people who actually do care and want you to know that you know everything isn't your fault and you shouldn't shut up for what happened to you. You should deal with it. You don't have to deal with it way out publicly and openly and act all crazy. We're not saying that you do. Just because we're American doesn't mean that we think that we want you to know that there are other women out here who care and we want you to be whole and you can be. You might have to do it differently in your culture and country than we do here in America, right, but there is hope.

Fatima Bey: 23:19

I've met women from different parts of the world who actually do care, so reach out, even if it's just to me. You can't call Erica because you don't have. You can't reach out to American phone numbers. I do have a WhatsApp on my website and most people in the world can get on WhatsApp. You can reach out to me that way and I can forward you to somebody somewhere. But we want you to know for young women. Please reach out and just know that there are people who care and there are people that want to support you. I don't care what language you speak and I don't care what country you're in. I don't care what culture you come from. That's all just stuff to me. You're a woman.

Erica Bess: 24:03

You're a woman. You need support. You're a young woman. You're a girl.

Fatima Bey: 24:09

That's what we care about and we need to support each other and for everybody else out there listening, please make it a point to try to understand our youth, instead of telling them just what to do and yelling at them Because you are making their trauma worse. It's almost like you're reabusing them. Absolutely, I want you to think about that, all right, well, erica, thank you so much for coming on, um. You've already told people how they can find you, um, and your, your. I will put your uh link into the show notes or the podcast description, and this has been a really good conversation and we will talk about this again, because there's a whole lot that we didn't talk about, because 16, nobody's going to list to a 16 hour podcast. Absolutely, thank you for having me.

Fatima Bey: 25:06

We only touched on the surface today, but we really hope that this touches someone and changes a life. Thank you, and now for a mind shifting moment, I want to put plant a thought seed in your head today. Sometimes we look at people and we're like why is she acting crazy, why is he doing that? And we don't really think about what caused them to arrive at the behavior that we're judging. Sometimes what we're looking at is a trauma response within a cultural mindset. I want you to really sit down and think about what that means and what that looks like, because you have seen it. But now I want you to start to recognize that. Thank you for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe to MindShift Power podcast on any of our worldwide platforms so you, too, can be a part of the conversation that's changing young lives everywhere. And always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.