Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome. In today's episode, we are we have a special guest. We are gonna be talking about challenges for minority teens in the school systems, and it's a much bigger issue than most people probably even think about.

And so today's guest here is Erica Bess. She is a licensed hello, Erica. She's a licensed therapist. She has, eleven plus years of experience, as a social worker and a therapist. And the majority of her work has actually been working with teens in the school setting, which is why she's here.

她是Empower Therapy的老闆。 Erica，你今天好嗎？我很好。你呢？我棒極了。

我很高興能和您談論這個問題，因為我認為這是大多數人沒有想過的事情。希望今天我們能播下一些種子，日後它們會成長為有益的事業。絕對是如此。那麼，就讓我們像我一直以來喜歡做的那樣，直接進入正題吧。憑藉您多年的經驗，您認為我們青少年需要解決的最大問題是什麼？

我們青少年需要解決的最大問題是，讓他們有一個安全的地方或安全的空間，可以和那些不會評判他們的人交談。讓我回到剛才的問題。你提到了「安全空間」。人們經常使用這個詞。嗯。

這究竟是什麼意思？我說這話的時候，我不知道其他人是什麼意思。但當我這麼說的時候，就像你跟我說話一樣，你可以暢所欲言，不受任何評斷。你可以咒罵，你可以咆哮。

你可以跺跺腳，跟我說話的時候也不會被評斷。所以，我說的安全空間，是指我們談話時，不一定要指某個特定的地方。對。但是，你知道，你在一個安全的地方跟我說話，無論什麼話題。所以，這意味著你不會對他們進行政治糾正？

No. No. No. I wanna point out that a safe space really does not include political correction. Mhmm.

Not when it comes to to, you know, figuring things out. Right. So safe space. What is another big issue? Another big issue for teens, especially, I think, minority teens is that they're in school systems where it's predominantly run by, white systems.

And I don't think a lot of the minority teams have the comfort level to be able to go reach out to these, people who are put in the schools for their counseling needs. They don't feel comfortable. Mhmm. So I think that's a big issue too. So getting more people involved who are of the same culture or of the same, background so that the teens have somebody to identify with.

I would say relatable. Relatable for sure. So I and I do agree. Just I don't have all of the many years of experience as you do. But in the years of experience that I do have, I have seen what you were talking about.

Just in general, you know, having not having people that, you know, who are in positions of authority that we can relate to. So true. That's not just true in the cool school system, but I think it's easier to see and point out in the school system. Yeah. Definitely.

So so the one of the biggest one of the biggest issues is not being able to not have anybody to relate to. So what do you think are the repercussions of that when when they don't have anybody to When they don't have anybody to relate to? They start trying to, I guess, find it in their friends and peers, and then they start giving into peer pressure, finding out from people on the streets or maybe older relatives who are not quite adults. Like, I know I used to ask my cousin, my older cousin, all types of stuff about boys that I didn't feel that my mother was gonna answer, but I didn't necessarily get a good good guidance necessarily because sometimes we're asking the wrong people, some people who don't even know. Mhmm.

是的，非常正確。我想指出的是，我喜歡直言不諱、直截了當、誠實地表達自己的想法。所以，在學校系統中，少數族裔主要佔據權威的位置，他們可以與之交談，或者主要由白人組成。對。

很多地方都是這樣。並非每個地方都如此，但肯定是真的，而且我可能會說，大多數地方都是如此。但有時候，那些白人老人真的能引起共鳴嗎？有時我們也有青少年觀眾。我們有青少年觀眾。

And sometimes there there are. And I Yeah. You know, I think it's important to point that out as well. I'm talking to teens in particular right now. Just because he looks like a old white man or she looks like a out of touch old white lady Mhmm.

這並不意味著……並不意味著他們無法感同身受。是的。哦，是的。因為我也經歷過和你一樣的事情，如果你沒有坐下來和他們談談，你就不會知道。給他們這個機會。

沒錯。所以，是的，我們必須克服這種評判，當我們看著某人，假設他們是某種樣子時，我們會假設他們有某種樣子，但和他們交談後，我們就能發現。你懂嗎？我認為孩子們在最初的五分鐘內就能看出他們是否能和他們交談。你懂嗎？

Kids can I mean, teens especially could feel the vibes? You know? What would you say? Let's say, let's talk it to a different part of the audience because we this show is for teens, and, primarily, we talk to teens. But there's times we talk to the adults involved with teens as well, which is Right.

Something I'd say in the, you know, the podcast description. What do you say to these older white folks that can't relate to, you know, our black and brown students, but they want to? What do you say to them? They want to, but they just can't? They don't know they don't know what to do or how to because they didn't grow up the same way.

他們從未經歷過身為美國黑人的滋味，也從未經歷過身為美國拉丁裔的滋味。他們不知道那種滋味是什麼樣的，但他們想提供幫助。我知道我認識很多這樣的人，所以我才問這個問題，因為我知道這樣的人比我們意識到的要多得多。我們在學校裡成立了一個小組，旨在彌補這種差距。我覺得這很有幫助，因為我們組織了一些遊戲和破冰活動，讓這些十幾歲的男孩們更接近一些恰好是白人、與社會有點脫節的男教師。

So we felt like it would be a nice opportunity for them to bond and get to know each other. And I feel like that's the way to start it, you know, get some conversations going and for them to have a open mind and hear what these kids are actually going through. And that way, they can, even though they never been through it or don't understand it, they can start to create a dialogue with them, and that'll create a bond and then eventually, hopefully, trust so that they could be somebody that they could feel comfortable going to talk to. So in other words, what I hear is find a way to get them to see that you're relatable. Mhmm.

即使你們不是在同一個城市以同樣的成長方式長大，你們也能讓人產生共鳴。對吧。我覺得很多人想知道你是否能讓人產生共鳴，因為我遇過一些女性，對吧，她們會對我說，哦，你看起來真年輕。我不知道我是否能理解你，或者你能理解我。我說，好吧，試試看。

很多女性會直接問我，你是媽媽嗎？我剛開始做臨床醫生的時候，我會說，是的。我有個女兒。後來長大了，我會問，為什麼？為什麼想知道？

Because and I asked them, and they say, well, I just wanna know if you can relate to the struggles that I'm going through as being a mother. And I was like, oh, okay. I do understand now. You know? But just because I let's say I I didn't have a kid at the time, and I was still doing therapy.

I would still be able to relate, but it would be harder for them to accept the fact that I could relate or even give me a chance to relate with certain people because they wanna know that you have that common bond at first. So you have to, like, connect on some level. You know? And sometimes I think, to add to that, kinda still answering the same question I just asked. It's it really is about relatability.

I used to work at Job Corps, and I've talked about that before. Mhmm. It's something that I did see with some of the the teachers there. And when I worked at the Job Corps that the particular one I worked at, almost all of the staff in the education wing were white. Wow.

And almost, you know, 80% of the student population was black and brown. Right. And that did pose as a problem sometimes. But I also saw teachers that did not grow up in some of the neighborhoods that some of these kids grew up, but they were still able to relate to them. Now they had to work at it a little bit to get the students to see that.

And I think and, again, talking to teachers and administrators and and counselors, guidance counselors, any position that you're in in the school system and you're dealing with teens, I think it's important to to point that out. You can find a way to relate, but be honest about it. Just say no. I don't know what it's like to be black and and be judged everywhere I go. I don't know what that's like, but I know it's like to be poor.

I know what it's like to be different than people. I know what it's like to be made fun of. I know it's like to be whatever, you know, whatever their situation is or for people to assume that you have money, that you're this and that because that's an issue too. Mhmm. Sometimes I I've noticed with the talking to teens, sometimes they associate just being white with having money, and that's not always the case.

Oh my god. That's so not the case. Yeah. And Yeah. This and that's that segues into what I was what I was about to say, actually.

Mhmm. Sometimes I have seen people, they just, like, look like an average white suburban person, but they grew up poor. I mean Yeah. Poed. They couldn't even afford the other o r.

Poed. Poed. And so when it comes to poverty, color really sits in the background. And you don't know that unless you start working with enough people to see it. I will say that that's something I learned at Job Corps.

Whether they're they're white and they live out in the sticks or they're they're they're black or brown and they live in the inner city, the mentalities are very, very close Yes. When it comes to poverty thinking. And that's just an example because poverty is not the only way. But Right. That's the first one that comes to mind.

And it's like, there are more ways to relate. So find those ways. Don't try to pretend. Right. Definitely don't try to pretend because they could tell in two seconds.

Like, oh my god. He's so fake. She's so fake. I'm out of my mouth. Have you don't and here's the thing for for the adults listening.

你不必假裝。你不必假裝感同身受。有些事你可以感同身受。你或許需要去發現那是什麼。對。

Which means you might need to get to know your students better and find out what you identify with and relate on that level. Because I could promise you, I don't care where you grew up and what you grew up with, you can find a way to relate to somebody. Yeah. Definitely. Find a way to relate.

It might take a little time. Too. Yeah. It might take a little homework, but that's okay. That's how we learn each other.

And for the students listening who are black or for the the students, the teens who are listening, who are black and brown, if someone's trying, meet them halfway. Yeah. Maybe you might want a black counselor, but you ain't got one. Okay? So So you have to deal with what you have.

You gotta deal with what you have. And if there's someone around you who's willing to meet you halfway and try Yeah. I would say you should try too because, that's the only way we can come together and solve problems. Ideally, I would love for there to be a black counselor in every school in America, but that's not but that's not that's not real right now. When that becomes real, I will celebrate.

Right. I'll do backflips and everything. And one and one that speaks Spanish too because that's a huge need as well. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Very much so. Yep. Yeah. Very much so.

Alright. So I knew I was just gonna live this conversation. Now why do you think that teens need to get therapized? Oh, they need to get therapized because they are young adults at the threshold of becoming adults. And as they get their their position right around that time, they will most likely, can't say all, but most likely be able to transition into adulthood without a lot of the childhood trauma that plagues us all in certain ways as adults who have not been therapized.

So Yes. You get you you get childhood trauma, and that obviously goes with you into teenhood. And then if you don't get therapy, then it goes with you into adulthood. And then your relationships with adults and whatever you decide to do in life, everything will be difficult because you never healed that inner childhood trauma that you experienced. But I think that that range from 13 to 18 to focus on that target audience to get their therapy at that time, I think it'll have a smoother transition for them going into adulthood for sure.

如果他們沒有任何童年創傷，或者至少他們認為沒有呢？有意思。你知道，我認為沒有人能不經歷創傷就活下來。但說到童年創傷，我想我還沒見過一個完全沒有童年創傷的人。我很想認識他們。

Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't. Like you said, they don't know. Listen. Listen.

They do exist. All we have to do is close our eyes, and they will appear because. I was about to say, like, is this a trick question? We all been traumatized. Right?

We all been traumatized. We all have issues. I always like to say we all have issues, just different ones. Yeah. And the truth is whatever issues you're avoiding and not dealing with, they are already dealing with you because they go through you.

它們會伴隨你工作，也會伴隨你進入下一段感情。你會納悶，為什麼自己總是一遍又一遍地選擇同樣的傻瓜，因為你還沒有弄清楚自己選擇這些傻瓜的初衷。或者，它也會伴隨你的工作，你總是被解僱，因為你還沒有處理好導致你做出那些讓你一直被解僱的事情的那個問題。沒錯。就好像我們每個人都有不同的問題。

They manifest different ways with all of us. Right. Deal with it now so you can get it over with and move on and be healthier. Like, the you do it, the better. Yeah.

Yeah. Because things that I had wished I had dealt with when I was younger that I didn't deal with until I was an adult because I just I didn't have that understanding back then. You know? Yeah. It's amazing when you can realize, like, your own personal growth, and you're like, oh, I woulda handled this different, and I didn't accept it at this time, but now I'm ready to receive it.

You know? Yes. Yes. So that's so important. Mhmm.

Let's talk about the stigma around therapy. Does that still exist? Very much so. Yeah. I've, dealt with many different cultures when it comes to therapy, and I've had people just say to me, oh, my family is from let's pick a random country.

El Salvador. Right? Mhmm. They my my father is from El Salvador. He doesn't believe in therapy.

I've had Italian say, oh, my my father doesn't believe in therapy. Muslims, black Caribbean men. My father does not believe in therapy. And it's funny because they say with each culture, but it's like it's a it's a culture across the board. Doesn't matter what nationality or ethnicity you're from.

A lot of people feel like therapy means that you're automatically crazy or that you can't handle your life and you need to talk to somebody else or you're telling your business to a stranger. You know? So the stigma is still very alive and well. I think that society is beginning to accept it more and that mental health is becoming, like, more people are becoming more aware of it and accepting it more, but I do think the stigma is still very strong and alive. I agree.

What are some what are some ways that we could help to get rid of the stigma? Normalizing therapy and having honest conversations about therapy. What we doing right now? We helping right now. Yep.

You're right. You're right. Right? Yeah. I wasn't looking for that phrase, but it's but it's it is it's true.

Yeah. And it's something that we're gonna talk about on the show quite a bit. Yeah. And, you know, something I've already talked about in in many of the episodes is is therapy. And the fact that it's it's healthy and it's good is just a matter of running the right kind.

Right. Right? And somebody that meshes with you, and you can be like, okay. Be honest and open and really show up as yourself in therapy because, otherwise, you're not gonna get the full benefits of therapy if you're you're in there faking and acting like somebody you're not. You know?

哦天哪。是啊。我知道，對我來說，如果說到治療師，我確實需要那種親和力。對我來說，如果你只是談論理想，而你根本不理解我正在經歷或處理的事情，只把它當成概念來談，我早就先走了。就像，我已經受夠了。

哦，是的。我跟你說話不是因為你幫不了我。你幫不了我。想法。我想要一些有目的的、實用的、真實的，你知道，你幫我獲得了一些見解，然後你才能得到一些實用的東西，一些現實的東西。

你就算是個老白人，也能這麼做。就算沒用，對我來說也無所謂。我真正在乎的是你能不能坦誠相待？這真的很重要。所以，如果你有在聽，你就會明白，不是每個治療師都適合你，沒關係。

If you found a therapist who lives out in cuckoo land and doesn't relate to you at all, move on and find another one. It's it's really okay. And there's so many online, versions now that you can you know, there's so many ways of getting therapy online is is the way I would say it, that you don't have to necessarily stick with what's in your little small town. You know? That's true.

你的學校有什麼？如果你有醫療保險，你大概可以接受治療。對。比如說，你會對一個年輕的黑人女孩說些什麼？她身邊只有與世隔絕的白人可以求助。

For a black girl? Jeez. Oh, no. Now you let me also say, you could have some out of touch black folks in positions too. So it's not just about, the race, but it's about, what would you say to someone who's who's only got out of touch people around them?

I would tell them that they gotta talk to them and try to bring them up to date and bring them up to speed. Like, try to engage them in a conversation and then try to let them know, like, what the issues are for her demographic, age wise, race, and kinda, like, explain to them that the struggles of her, like, individual and as a group, of people, not necessarily, you know, just her as an individual, but, like, other black people who might be attending the school as well. Maybe she could get some some of them together and have, like, a a meeting where she could explain that they need more support from the school, you know, and get some people on board who might be out of touch, but, like, kinda bring them up to speed a little bit. You know? Tell them about the new lingo, about issues, style, all kinds of things that they could connect on.

好吧，那又怎麼樣？假設他們嘗試了。如果他們仍然覺得，我的天哪，那又怎麼樣？這個女人甚麼都不懂。這個男人甚麼都不懂。

我沒辦法跟他們說話。他們不明白。他們去哪了？他們得打電話給我。叮，叮，叮。

完全不會。他們真的會。正如我在本集節目開頭提到的，Erica 是一名持證治療師，但她也提供線上治療服務。這就是我剛才提到的原因。如果你正在尋找一個可以傾訴的人，我可以告訴你，她非常踏實。

You can keep it real. You can say whatever you want. She will listen. She will laugh with you. She just and she will listen.

She'll be there for you. But even if you can't go to Erica, there are other online options, if you can't find anybody in your town or your city or somewhere near you. Right. And I'm saying that because I don't want you to sit there and not get the help you need because there's nobody relatable around you. And I know that stops a lot of people.

It genuinely does. And as far as the stigma goes, I did wanna speak to that too. That stigma, I know, is still there. Mhmm. But keep in mind, a lot of people who talk that talk about not needing therapy, you could see their issues.

Do you want that to be you too? I just wanted to plant that seed Yeah. In in some of your heads. That's right. That to be you too.

They might be great people. They might be nice. They might be caring, but you could see how messed up they are Yeah. When it comes to certain things. Do you wanna be that too?

Sometimes you just need somebody. And so there's a therapist isn't necessarily about, so a a therapist isn't necessarily always gonna be just let's dig up let's dig up everything you passed and talk about everything that was the most hurtful ever, and that's all we're where we're gonna stay. Because sometimes people think that that's what therapy is. Right. Now it's growth.

There there is some of that, but it's but it's not but it's not about staying there. So being dealing with it and coming out of it. Correct? Right. Correct.

And using coping skills to maintain it. Yes. I teach when I, you know, as a coach, I I'm not a therapist. But as I always like to say, but I do therapize. You do therapize.

So so there's there's there's times where I'm giving people coping mechanisms for the issues that are getting in their way, but then I will send them to a therapist to to take a deeper dive. Right. And the truth is you need a little bit of both. Right. At coaching for that motivation and then the therapy for processing the trauma and getting over that trauma and learning how to deal with it and not messing up the relationships that you have to cultivate as an adult.

Yes. Big time. Yep. Goes hand in hand. What would you say to the adults Mhmm.

Who are listening right now? And I'm gonna be very particular. The adults who are listening right now that, I I said something to them earlier from myself, but I would like something to come from you. What would you say to the adults who are listening who do work in the school systems? They got, like, three black people in the school.

So it's an all white system, and they, you know, they wanna be able to reach out to them, and they wanna be able to help them. They don't know how. I would say that wait. The adults in the school, you mean? Yes.

The adults were in in in our school systems, and I'm speaking in very general terms Okay. Across the nation because we always have these, quote, unquote, systems that are typically made for one type of student, and they're not always now that's not true for every single person in the nation. There are people that have that have a clue, and they've made some changes. But overwhelmingly, we still have a lot of traditional settings in a lot of our school systems in America, which exclude a good portion of the population. Right.

So what would you say to them? What what could they do to make their systems better? To be more inclusive, have, like, a parents night where the parents come too and they get involved and meet the faculty and maybe try to bridge the gap between them not knowing the community that they're serving and just kinda get familiarized with it. I'm gonna add on to that. I agree.

I think one of the biggest, biggest, biggest pieces to that is how you come across. If you come across as condescending, you've already killed everything you're trying to do. Yeah. If you come across as lady. You people or those folks Oh, gosh.

我，我不僅僅是在談論種族問題。我的意思是，無論以何種方式。你的人際心態，是的。它會扼殺任何人認真對待你的機會。是的。

Yeah. Very true. And I I just wanted to add that piece there because that's just, like Uh-huh. So critical. Alright.

Well, our it's it's I really wanna keep talking, but we're gonna, talk more episodes. And by the way, you're going to hear a lot more from Erica. She's gonna be on a few upcoming episodes. You know, as a therapist who's worked with teens, we're gonna talk about a lot of different things. Some of those episodes will actually include teens as well.

Yes. Now, Erica, you own Empower Therapy. Yes. So you do online therapy sessions with people? Yes.

Online therapy sessions. Hope to one day maybe do some in person as well. But for now, I'm online, doing sessions, either individual sessions or, a couple of groups too. I'm thinking about some trauma groups for older women and also trauma groups for, teen resiliency. Awesome.

So how can people find you? The empoweredtherapy.com is the name of the website. Alright. Well, thank you for coming on today, Erica Best. It has been awesome talking to you.

Thank you for having me, miss Fitzma. No problem. I really hope that, somebody, some of the listeners really got some really big nuggets to think about today and that Definitely. Turn those those seeds that were sown today into some fruit tomorrow. Definitely.

And you're always doing that, and I think that you're a huge inspiration to the community and, girls who will see you and be inspired by you because I'm inspired by you myself. Aw, thank you. You're welcome. Welcome. Yes, ma'am.

And now for a mind shifting moment. I want to plant a thought seed in your head today. We can go on and on talking about the problems all day long. We could be here for a whole week talking about the problems in our school systems, the problems when you're a person of color within our school systems. But let's take a step back and focus on the solution.

Where there's a will, there's a way. And if the solutions that you seek are not around you, find them. If you are one of the teenagers we're talking about in this episode, find your solution and don't stop seeking it until you find it. Find that person you can talk to because there's plenty of us around that actually care and you can talk to. You just have to find us.

And if you're one of the school administrators or teacher or staff that we're talking about, you too can find a solution. You can find a way to reach those who need to be reached if you really want to. Just try. I want to I wanna I want you all to take a moment and think differently. Shift your thinking towards solutions instead of just focusing on the problems.

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