Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. Welcome. Today, we have with us mister Jojo, who is a principal within New York State at a high school within New York State. How are you today, mister Jojo?

Doing well. How are you? I'm great. So on today's episode, we're going to talk about school shootings, what it's what from the perspective of a school principal and, STEM programs and what that means. Sounds good.

不過，喬喬先生，既然您在高中工作，我想問您，您對校園槍擊案有什麼看法？嗯，校園槍擊案，你知道，是非常悲慘、非常糟糕的事件。但作為一所市區學校的校長，我對此並不太在意。為什麼呢？你知道嗎？

Well, you know, as you look at school shootings, there there have not been very many that have been conducted by black or brown students and black or brown schools. For the majority, Yeah. You'll see that they they predominantly happen in, you know, white suburban schools, white rural schools. But most of the perpetrators are not black and brown students. I I think there may have been one, maybe.

But it's not something that I go to work every day concerned with. My my mom is always worried about me with school shootings and stuff like that. And I'm like like, mom, remember the school I work in? It's it's not like white suburban middle class where, you know, kids are just holding a grudge. You know, our our kids are less likely to engage in something like that in a school building.

We have had incidents where, you know, there's been concerns around, weapon being in the building. And generally speaking, it's like a a BB gun or an airsoft gun, but kids don't have an intentionality around using it in our building. It's generally something they've forgotten in their bag or something like that. Wow. Why do you think there is such a a, big difference between, like, as you said, your concern for school shootings isn't as great because of the fact that you work at a mostly brown school, in in an urban setting.

但如果你在郊區，你認為這種擔憂會加劇嗎？當然。你知道，說實話，我認為郊區比城區學校更容易接觸到武器。我認為在城區學校上學的孩子通常不會來學校參與這種活動。這通常是他們能接觸到的最安全的空間，他們非常希望能保護這一點。

You know, this is where they can come to get away from some of the things that are happening in their community or their house. You know, I grew up, you know, myself in an urban environment and and just remember school being a place, you know, you're fine school being a place where, you know, everyone felt safe as opposed to maybe walking down the street after you got out of school. And most of the time, kids that are that are really violent in urban settings kinda stop going to school around, you know, ninth grade when they can. And so if I was in a suburban, but, yeah, if I was at a white middle class, upper middle class suburban school, you know, I think there are some elements to that where kids, you know, I'm not saying kids aren't bullied in urban schools in black and brown settings. They are.

我調查過很多這樣的學校。但這些學校的學生似乎更容易感到被排斥。而且，總的來說，他們的外表、膚色、經濟背景在各個地方都更容易被接受。對吧？也就是說，在任何一個被接受的地方，他們都會感到被接納。

And then they go to school, and they feel like the outsider. They feel like they don't have friends. They feel like nobody accepts them. And then they start to spin those wheels, around why and get angry and then looks to target people. That's my perception of it.

Whereas most, you know, students that are in urban school feel more accepted at their schools than they than they do potentially even at home sometimes with the Oh, wow. I work with and talk to. Well, that's interesting. And that's a perspective that I actually hadn't really heard before, you know, before, speaking with you, and I'm sure that it it might be a surprise to some listeners. Some of the other listeners probably like, yeah.

We know that already. You know, those who who work in places like you probably already know that. But I think many of the listeners, in here and maybe Canada, where school shootings are not as prevalent as they are here, might might not understand that. And so thank you for for explaining that. And now Absolutely.

各位聽眾朋友，請問您在教育領域工作多久了？哇，快十九年了。對我來說，今年是2019年的年底了。我大學一畢業就開始從事教育業了。

I had been looking at going to law school. That was that was what I had planned to do. Oh, wow. Came came back home, was accepted at a local law school, was touring the school. And, you know, at the time I was working at a restaurant.

I love serving. It's one of my favorite jobs I've ever done is is working in a restaurant. But either way, the the law professor giving me a tour said, you know, if you come to school here, you're gonna have to quit your job. And I was like, well, I don't have money otherwise. Like, I need to work.

Like, I I don't come for money. My family's poor. And he's like, well, you can still work there, but if we find out that you're working, we're gonna kick you out of law school, because there's no way that you can have enough time to do all the work we require and to have a job. And at that point, I was like, maybe I need to rethink my life. Oh, wow.

So They really I didn't know that they they they said that to you back then. Yeah. They sure did. And this is, 02/2004. So I decided to apply for a couple jobs at a school district, fell in love with working with, freshman academy at an urban high school, and decided I was gonna go back and become dual certified in special education and social studies.

Became special education teacher, baseball coach for a long time, and then wanted to expand my influence, so went into educational leadership. Okay. Well, thank you for letting us know what your background is. I think sometimes that matters when we're listening to people to understand where they're coming from. So you're not some person that just started working in education five days ago.

您經驗豐富，所以您所說的內容來自您的一些知識和經驗。我喜歡和那些剛入行不久的人交流，因為您能夠看到過去二十年教育的變遷，包括現在和過去的教育，以及教育的進步，當然，也包括很多方面的偏離。現在我想談談STEM。您現在擔任一所高中的校長，該高中開設了STEM課程。我想請您解釋一下STEM的含義，因為紐約州以外的人可能不太了解它的含義。

Sure. So, STEM stands for science, technology, engineering, and math. Our school does have a couple of different, communities where students can learn college and career based skills. One of them has to do with the arts or else we would have been a STEAM Academy. A lot of times, the arts fits right in the middle of STEM.

You know, the design of things, the the creativity that comes with with STEM really lends itself to the arts. But they will be somebody that we partner with on a lot of projects. But, yes, STEM is science, technology, engineering, and math. Okay. And so you wanted to talk about STEM because you you think that it's very important.

那麼它為什麼重要呢？ STEM 無所不在。我們擁有許多不同的社區合作夥伴，包括全球合作夥伴，他們都在努力讓學生真正接觸基於 STEM 的職業和發展路徑。這不僅限於大學。我們與許多合作夥伴合作，抱歉。

Could you repeat that again? It's STEM is not just for kids that are going to work. Could you say it again? It's not just college? It's not just for college.

I that's something that I think is so extremely important for people to understand because we keep shoving down our kids' throat. College, college, college, and college can be good, but it's not for everybody, and there are other forms of education that you can pursue. But I digress. Go ahead. No.

Absolutely. And that's that's one of the biggest things for me. You know, I'm I'm one of the only high school graduates in my entire extended family. Oh, wow. My sister dropped out.

My dad went to one day of high school. Wow. My grandmother's claim to fame was that she had two degrees because she did my mother's work for her junior and senior year. So I I understand how challenging, you know, standardized education can be for some people. Yeah.

但我確實認為，幫助孩子們至少完成高中教育，並找到通往職業的道路非常重要。對。我們的一些合作夥伴，你知道，他們有工程團隊。對吧？顯然，你得去上一段時間大學，就是為了這個。

但他們也需要一些能幹的人。對吧？他們就是機械師。你知道，我們是在藍領和白領的環境中長大的。對吧？

藍領指的是機械師，他們身上沾滿了油污，而白領則在辦公室工作。嗯。但目前在STEM領域，他們正在大力推廣這種所謂的「新色系勞動力」。所以，有些人可能穿著白色正裝襯衫，但同時也是機械師，因為他們身上不油膩。他們不太喜歡油污之類的東西。

They might be replacing, you know, a gear that's that's not super greasy. It's it's kind of a cleaner aspect of working with your hands, you know, when you talk about creating, you know, wafers. Okay? So the microprocessor chips that are in all of our cell phones, our cars, things of that nature. That would be considered a new collar workforce where you're gonna be working on a machine that carries these huge wafer disks that are like $200,000 a disk.

Wow. And then moves it around this factory and infuses different gases in inside of this control chamber, to be able to process what a company is looking that microprocessor to process, whether it be a car or your iPhone. I think there's I think there's, like, 96 of them in an iPhone. Okay. So Wow.

It's amazing how many of them are used. And not everybody is on the biochemical engineering side of that production. There's a lot of people that are on the ground making sure that, you know, the machines are running across the ceiling well, that the wafers are getting picked up at the right time, that they're in the machines the the correct amount of time, based on what the engineers have designed. So a lot of the companies are telling me that they'd rather just train kids right out of high school than rather than have them go to college. Really?

這真的非常有趣。你知道嗎？這跟他們的發展有關嗎？我一定會這麼說。但我認為這也與許多公司想吸引剛高中畢業的學生有關，這樣他們就能看到自己在職涯道路上不斷進步。嗯。

To provide them the the internal mentoring and supports so that they get to the end goal of potentially being an executive. You know, but they they really do want people to learn the whole gamut of the operations. And you can start, you know, some some of the companies have said, do you know any kids that can work on lawn mowers? Right? Like, maybe maybe somebody that's really good with lawn mowers or power scooters or stuff like that.

And those are the kids they want because they're so creative and and knowledgeable without reading a manual. Right? They just kinda know what to do. Now for those teenagers out there listening right now, y'all hear that. You'll hear that.

There is hope for you. You there are ways that you can get into, technology fields without going to college and make a lot of money because there there that's one thing. I know you see it all the time, and I see it when I go to high schools and I deal with high school students and do workshops. How much money we gonna make? They wanna know about the money aspect.

And I know that there is a lot of money in engineering. I know that there's different kinds of of engineering, and I know engineering is I'm using as a general term, and I know that that's not the only position within the STEM field. I think it's the easiest one to talk about, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. But what do you think the outlook is for for the teenagers that are listening right now who are thinking about getting into engineering? How would you say the overall outlook?

Now you just talked about it a little bit, but, I mean, bigger picture. How was the overall outlook for engineers? Someone who wants to go into engineering field today. Oh my god. If you are a student at a high school that has any interest in engineering, the jobs there are more jobs than people available to take them.

I'm sorry. Could you repeat that part again? There there are more engineering jobs in The United States available, than there are kids in engineering programs at colleges. A lot of times, companies are actually going overseas to India and China and doing a couple of your contracts with with engineering students there to bring them into The United States to fulfill some of the jobs. Yeah.

They're very high paying, you know, anywhere from a starting salary recently of of 90 to $220,000 depending on your expertise with with engineering field. But, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind going back to talking to some of those teens that maybe have been messing up so far and give them some other STEM creative pathways that Absolutely. Go ahead. So one of my favorite, STEM initiatives is via the Fab Foundation, and they are really, really centered on creativity and maker spaces. And so at our school, we have a maker space.

A lot of people don't really know what that entails. It's kinda like this cool word to use. But, within our maker space, we have vinyl cutters, three d printers, CNC routers, laser cutters, t shirt presses, button makers That is so cool. Sublimation printers, embroidery. And so kids can really or students or anyone, and we've had community nights where we've invited parents in to kind of work on some of these machines.

But we've had students create entire clothing lines based on the computer designs that they do, and then they use the sublimation printer, and then they make sweatshirts, and they have them embroidered, and they sell them for $80. There is so much money in creating on demand products, that I don't really think people understand. Like, you can make freeze pop containers or holders that have somebody's name on them and sell them for $15. Can I come use your maker space? Yeah.

You can come in and you can come in and work with it. Next time you're in, I'll show it to you. It's one of my most it it's like my happy place in the building. Like, if I need to go see some cool things happening, I'll just go to that classroom, spend twenty minutes in there. You might see somebody, you know, soldering, electrical to create, or to fix, like, an RC car, or somebody creating their logo for design.

不過，你知道，美國的青少年運動一直很火爆，加拿大可能也一樣。所以，每次你去看棒球錦標賽或冰球錦標賽，他們都會賣這種便宜的速乾T卹，印著標誌。 30美元。沒錯。

30美元。他們的製作成本大概是6美元。乙烯基大概是25美分。超便宜，利潤卻很高。所以，你知道，我認識一些人去參加冰球錦標賽，每天靠賣T恤和運動衫賺3000美元。

To me, this sounds like the for the teenagers and just young adults listening, it's it's a business that is fairly easy to get into. And and I know this just beyond this conversation that, you know, it's something that some of you might consider even if it's a side hustle. There are ways to do it. I'm a big fan of pushing entrepreneurialism, so you will hear that from me. And I think entrepreneurialism is not for everyone, but I think there's a lot of of students who get into especially STEM, you know, STEM areas, in areas of engineering that could probably be take what they know and be a great entrepreneur with it.

And they just that's not presented to to that's not presented to them all the time, especially in urban settings. And, you know, I would love to see more of that. Now how how would you suggest I was gonna ask you about digital fabrication, but you kinda talked about that already. How would you suggest some of these youth who are not in New York State that don't have a system like yours, and they might not even have a makerspace in their school. What would you say to those students who have a they're in a high school where STEM is not a focus, but they are really truly a STEM student.

What can they do? So there's a couple options. I mean, you can Google the Fab Foundation just to start. Okay? They have, I think, over 7,000 fab labs spread throughout the world.

Oh, wow. And so you can just Google Fab Foundation, and you'll have access in a lot of countries, to a digital fabrication lab that is supported by the Fab Foundation. So I know there's a lot at, libraries and museums throughout Canada, in Europe. That's kinda where their hub is based. Oh, okay.

You know, for example, Pittsburgh has, like, the Carnegie Science Center, and they have, I think, like, a couple mobile fab labs, but they also do summer STEM camps. And so if you looked up, fab foundation, that would be where I would start, just if you're interested in the digital fabrication, you know, getting into those types of things. But, you know, I think there are there are so many museums and and libraries and and local places that actually offer maker spaces and creative labs. I know that we've opened up one or two locally in our area. They're expensive to get started, but a lot of times, you know, there's some really, there's some companies that donate a lot of money to urban locations to have them create makerspaces and fablets.

Interrupt you for one second. Because our our audience is national, we're really in international because we're including Canada. Makerspace is a word that is more commonly used right now. I know that I'm familiar with it. But what is what are some other terms that they can search for that might not be called makerspace?

What are some others terms that they could search for if they're looking for a place like that? I mean, that's that's a big one, but I would also go with, you know, Fab Foundation. EduFab is another one. See if your Oh. Your local schools have a partnership with EduFab.

有一位女士和我合作過，她經營EduFab，也是Fab基金會的合作夥伴。他們負責在創客空間為學校設計課程計畫和創意活動。你也可以直接輸入「數位製造」之類的字。你知道，這挺有趣的。例如，我以前有個學生，以前是棒球運動員，後來從事焊接工作，最後在數位製造工廠擔任焊工大師，負責一些其他機器無法完成的工作。

例如，在製造過程中，仍然需要一些手持設備來完成。所以這真的是一個有趣的集體。數位製造、創客太空和晶圓廠基金會最大的優點之一就是它非常注重國際合作。好的。

So, you know, if you start to get into those those fields, then they do a lot of, like, I think it's called open source where everyone can have access to some of the programs that you're using. So if you're looking at creating, you know, a design, you can kinda Google and look up those designs and then say, you know, you've already made that. You would generally share that with me for free. It's a really, really collaborative space. Another key term, open source.

Yep. And and so some of the, you know, the things that we've looked at doing is collaborating with schools in, you know, Malaysia and France through some of the partnerships that I've had with Fab Foundation and met international conferences, to work across time zones on similar projects. You know? And I think one of the areas that you'll see making in the Fab Foundation and just digital fabrication in general is is providing really, really affordable access to technological resources across the world. One of the the initiatives the Fab Foundation had is they created a a floating makerspace, in Senate down the Amazon River to work with local indigenous tribes.

哇哦！甚至嘗試創造解決方案，幫助他們生產更乾淨的水。哇！太棒了。或更簡單的方法來建造他們的房子。

這真的很酷。所以，你知道，我內心深處對此有點不舒服。我真的不想跟亞馬遜河沿岸的土著部落太過糾纏，因為他們就是這樣做生意的。是啊。但同時，如果你能給他們一些東西，讓他們能更多地接觸到這些，這對他們的生活有幫助，是的。

Without having to, you know, get a McDonald's also there. Right. No. Right. Like that.

You know, they try to not change their structure. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'm excited to see what the future of, you know, digital fabrication and making becomes for the next generation of students. I'm excited about that too.

I mean, digital digital fabrication and everything tech, I would say. I I generalize STEM is everything tech. That's that's Fatima verbiage for it. I see that as as our our future even before talking to you. I'm just like, well, that's our future.

這就是我們的目標。所以，為什麼不進入一個一切都將走向自動化的領域呢？我想讓聽眾明白，你可以附和我的觀點，或是糾正我，但在整個科技領域，不只是技術職位。所有事情都不可能被自動化。人工智慧已經接管了很多事情。

Let's be real about that. But AI can't take over everything. There's some human touch that's still gonna be necessary. So there might be someone necessary to take notes. There there's still gonna be need for administrative assistance.

There's still gonna be need for innovative ideas even if you're not the one to implement them. We might need your brain to help us come up with the next innovative idea. There are many, many, many different positions within the field that aren't just tech oriented that might be necessary. Correct? Absolutely.

And I'm glad you brought up AI because, you know, some of the local partners that I have are also computer programmers and coders. And that's one of the most recent STEM courses that we've, you know, kind of grown here is is is coding, computer programming, computer science. And, you know, when when AI dropped one of my partners, they were real scared because, you know, you can go into chat GPT or other AI programs and literally type exactly what you want for the code to be, what you're looking for, and then it creates that code pretty instantaneously for you. So, you know, I I think that we're right at the tip of the AI iceberg. I think it's gonna be as I I don't know if I wanna use the word disruptive, but I feel like it is gonna be as disruptive to our lives as electricity was.

Yeah. I I agree to that. I could see where you're coming from with that. And and I mean disruptive, like, you know, back in the day before electricity, you couldn't really work at night. Right?

Like, there are certain hours of employability, and that sounds great. Right? I mean, that sounds like really nice to have things kinda shut down at a certain point in time. But AI, I hope we can harness it, and really and really kind of create a society that's better for us rather than, you know, the opposite, like, you know, you watch Terminator. Yeah.

That's what I go I think the key thing to all of that, is balance. It's just to make sure that we're balanced with it because I think it can be very, very, very helpful. I use AI in some things, but I don't use it in everything. We if we are using AI to replace our brains, that's extreme, that's imbalance, and that's bad. If we use AI to assist our brains, that's a beautiful, perfect balance.

And we just gotta make sure we stay there. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people that don't because they like to go to extremes and just be silly. But, but I'm hoping that it it I mean, it does really I I couldn't do all that I'm doing if I didn't use AI for some things because it cuts down on me taking an entire date to create something. I could take what what what AI gives me, and then I could tweak it and make it my own. I don't just take AI stuff anyway.

I tweak anything that they do for, you know, my own. But in wrapping up, I I would like for you to speak to the adults who are working the adults who are either parents or working with youth, that have STEM interests or talents. What would you say to them? I I would say continue to push them. Continue to work with those students.

繼續讓他們接觸那些他們甚至不知道在STEM領域可以從事的職業。我甚至想對那些與那些他們認為對STEM不感興趣或沒有熱情的孩子一起工作的人說，如果你讓這些學生接觸各種各樣的活動、教育經歷和基於STEM的公司，你可能會讓他們看到一些他們甚至不知道存在的事物，並激發他們內心的熱情，讓他們真正看到自己未來會做什麼。我認為對我來說，一些最偉大的企業家帶孩子們去實地考察，他們的老師會說，哦，那孩子不應該去。他們在這門數學課上得了A-，而這門課是基於STEM的。然後我帶他們去實地考察，他們回來後就像一個A 的孩子，因為現在他們知道他們想去哪裡了。

Mhmm. And they see how how much better their life can be if they actually work hard, in that STEM based career. I I think that's been some of the most eye opening. I think the kids that are already motivated, just keep pushing them, keep exposing them. And the kids that aren't, do the same thing because they they might not even know what exists for them.

No. You're absolutely right. I will tell you. I I've always been a crafty person and as you know, and and I'm not sure if the listeners know, but I'm also a professional seamstress. I make and design wedding gowns, and I have a separate business for that.

I would not have gotten into I don't know that I would've would've gotten into wedding gowns the way I have if I hadn't first worked at a bridal shop, selling them at first before becoming before managing the alteration department. And I have a strong passion. I love working with brides. I love working with wedding gowns. I don't know that I would have known that if I hadn't been exposed to it.

我之前有零售管理背景，但之前我去David's Bridal工作過，在那裡待了十年。我之前也有零售管理背景，但直到我進入婚紗行業，並被賦予一個必須投入工作的職位時，我才意識到自己對婚紗禮服如此熱愛。然後我意識到，哇，我對婚紗禮服有如此的熱情。我不認為這是我獨有的。當時我已經成年了，但這只是人之常情，就像你剛才說的。

And and for some of, for some of our teens, we we need to just let them experience some things, and that's how they'll discover what they do and don't like. Sometimes we present things. Presenting it in the classroom doesn't mean a damn thing until they're actually putting their hands to it and experiencing it, or at least maybe virtually experiencing it or, you know, going through some kind of experience that'll show them what this particular thing is like, and then it can open up the doors. It's like, I didn't realize how much I love peaches until I tasted one. Yeah.

Absolutely. The same goes for, I think, some of my biggest learning experiences in my life were experience is going after something that I thought I'd really love and be passionate about, and then realizing it was absolutely not for me. Yep. That's so true. And that and I thankfully learned a lot of those lessons before, you know, I was done with my education, before I was locked into a career, and was able to find something that I'm super passionate about, something that I really enjoy, something that doesn't feel like a job every day.

感覺就像，你知道，這很令人興奮。這很酷。這很有趣。每天都有新鮮事。所以，你知道，我認為接觸事物可以幫助孩子了解他們想做什麼，但更重要的是，了解他們絕對不想做什麼。

是的。不，我完全同意你的觀點。好了，該結束了，我非常非常非常感謝你來參加，抽出時間與我們的聽眾交流，讓他們聽到你想說的話。我希望今天在這裡說的這些對成年人和青少年來說都是有用的。

And so, again, I thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. And now for a mind shifting moment. When someone with as much experience as him says what he says about school shootings, there's something to it. I would like for you to examine why.

And when it comes to the future of technology and you're a teenager, you know you wanna be in that field. You're not sure what yet. Don't just go with the positions that are presented to you. There are thousands of positions out there. Don't wait for them to bring it to you.

You bring it to them. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBey.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking.

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