Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome everyone. Today, we have with us Roland Sarver. He is from Illinois.

He is an author and a motivational speaker. Today, I'm gonna have more of a conversation with him than the the typical interview style that I usually do. He and I have already had this amazing conversation off air, and so we're going to share some of that conversation with you in this episode. So today, we're talking about self, we're talking about self hatred. Let's start off with talking about what does self hatred look like.

Now one of the things that he and I talked about is self sabotage. And I'll I'll give my take on it, but, Roland, tell us what your take is on self sabotage as it relates to self hatred. Self sabotage, for me, like, it it's just something that we're in our mind, we think we're gonna be successful about, but somehow we turn that around like a self fulfilling prophecy. And the thing I think, like, when we self sabotage ourself, we also become good at self sa sabotaging other people. And because we feel jealous or we are afraid somebody will be more successful than than we will, and I was I was thinking of something that happened to me in eighth grade or something I that I did.

I was I struggled with being bullied, and we we were kind of the poor kids in school. But I was a good student, and I was I was made sure the teachers thought I was a good kid. So I had a pretty good rapport with the teachers. But there's a girl who was, she was just really happy, go lucky. She she knew the teachers well and the kids well, and she always was, she was just really positive.

One time she ran through the hall, and I stuck my foot out and tripped her. Self sabotage. I was jealous. I was envious. I couldn't admit that to myself, but I remember that teacher coming along that knew me well thought I was a good kid.

And she she thought for sure I would never do anything like that. So, of course, I denied it and got away with it. But, you know, over the years, I thought back about that. That is exactly what that was. It was just self sabotaging behavior, not for me, but for her because I was envious of who she was and her capacity and abilities.

還有，我記得我們做過的一些小事。嗯。這其實就是在自我破壞，也破壞他人，其根源在於自我憎恨。我想解釋一下你為什麼把破壞他人的行為稱為自我破壞。因為有人可能會覺得，嗯，不，那不是自我破壞。

You're sabotaging other people. But you are because we reap what we sow. Yes. So when you sabotage somebody else, you sabotage them, you sabotage them by 10. But what's gonna happen is you sabotage them by $10.

You're going to lose a hundred because it works in multiplicity. We reap what we sell. So self sabotage, let's go back to to the one where we're really talking about just doing things to damage yourself. Self sabotage sometimes looks like you have a like, you had said earlier, you have a project you need to finish. You already know what you need to do to finish it.

你可以做到。你故意拖延，拖延到最後把事情搞砸了，根本沒辦法完成。你認為這是自我破壞的一種表現。你知道自己能在這份工作上取得成功。所以你盡力，不去升職，不去進步。

You are in a relationship, and this is a big one, in a relationship with someone who treats you like just amazing. They're awesome, but you sabotage that relationship because well, there are many reasons, but because of self sabotage. Because well, I I there's no way I that this can work out. There's I just gotta I gotta kill it before it kills me kind of mentality. Yeah.

But when you were sabotaging other people, it is a form of self sabotage because the reason you're sabotaging them is like you said, jealousy, envy, and then you do something to hurt them. But what you don't realize is you're burning a hole in your own pocket. You're you're actually hurting yourself when you go out with intention to hurt other people. So true. And and, you know, just thinking about that, I always think about how it could have been different.

And, obviously, that didn't help our relationship at all, that other girl, but I just thought about how that could have been so different and to learn to appreciate people for who and what they are. And that always builds relationships, which is is, some brings something positive into our life. You know? So so to self sabotage that girl, tripper in the hall, that actually felt good. Maybe a little shot of dopamine because of I call it a little power trip, but it was short term.

是的，你說得對。而且這並不能維持一段更好的關係。如果我們能自我感覺更好，努力改掉自我破壞的行為，情況會大不相同。這不僅能讓我們自己變得更好，也能讓另一個人變得更好，這樣你就不會在走廊上絆倒，也不會和他發展出更好的關係。是的。

你知道嗎？說吧。我想談談自我憎恨的其他方面。你在自我毀滅。你在公然地破壞他人。

One of the other things when we hate ourselves, I'm using the word hate. Some of you might say dislike. In the context that we're speaking of, it is the same thing. Within the context, dislike and hate are not different. Another context, those two words do have different meanings.

But in this context, they're the same. When we hate ourselves, we tend to attract those who hate us too. Oh, yes. We tend to attract those who want to misuse us. We tend to and and it's not like we run around and intentionally attract them.

And I'm not saying, well, your self hatred is all your fault. That's please don't take it that way because it's not what I mean. What I'm saying is a fact that when we dislike ourselves, we attract people who don't value us either. It's just a natural attraction. Yes.

Because we we we put that out there. Like, that's the that's the scent that we put out there. You know, that's the that's the energy, whichever way you wanna word it, that we put out there. And but also I wanna dive a little deeper into that. When we hate ourselves, it is so much easier to hate others.

Because we take whatever however we see ourself, there's a natural tendency to push that same mindset onto other people. Yes. So if we are judgmental against ourselves because we hate ourselves, we're judgmental against others. And we do it with hatred, with, like, this negative hatred energy because that's how we feel about ourselves. Yes.

We you know, we feel like other people deserve like, a hatred that we have. We feel other people deserve that judgment. Yes. Well, they deserve that just like we feel we deserve that. So like you said earlier, we we strike at ourself sometimes because we think, well, I'm gonna get myself before somebody else gets me.

你知道嗎？嗯哼。你先抓住我，我先抓住我，如果這說得通的話，就像，你知道，我們對別人，尤其是對自己，散播的仇恨。感覺就像，我們在某種程度上是在保護自己，因為我們預料到其他人，那些像你說的，被我們吸引的人，會攻擊我們，可以這麼說。但現在我要攻擊我，我要在他們有機會之前，先自我毀滅。

Yes. Mhmm. And sometimes we're not fully aware of where our behavior is coming from. Yeah. You know?

It's coming from a thought process that we have. Yes. And self hatred affects every single one of your thoughts. For those of you listening, I want you to understand that if you are at a point of self hatred or disliking yourself, it is affecting your job. It is affecting your relationships.

It's affecting your wallet. Yes. Because it's affecting your job and your career or your lack thereof. It's affecting every single area of your life Yeah. Which is why it's important to examine it and take a look at it.

And none of us are perfect. We know all of us there are many people who are suffering with this right now, and they just don't recognize it. An analogy that, that I have for that is it's like if your boat is sinking, you need to figure out where the hole is so you can plug it in plug it up, right, And stop sinking. And sometimes self examination is how we find where the hole is so that we can figure it out and stop sinking in life and stop keep getting fired from the same job and stop keep going through the same relationship over and over again with different bodies and faces and names, but the same relationship because we're not dealing with the root issue. Yes.

That's so true. Like, to examine ourself like that, we could spend so much time or we do just spend so much time looking for that hole, but how much energy we spend a lot of time and energy doing that. If we can plug that hole and look at that root cause, then we can we have energy to spend somewhere else. And I I kinda Thank you. Yeah.

That's interesting. I have a I also have a boat analogy I thought about because I I try I help people see their own value because I think people struggle with that every single day. Very much. And they're spending a lot of energy doing that. And I I likened it to a boat anchor.

I've got a boat anchor hanging out the back of my boat, and I'm trying to crack the throttle and get some forward motion. I'm spending a lot of energy, but my boat anchor's holding me back. That's a great analogy. So when we get when we see our value and we no longer struggle with that, wow. All of a sudden, we're freed up.

We've got a lot more energy to focus on forward motion, or or we've got more energy to attack some of those other boat anchors that are hanging out of the back of our boat, like, maybe their financial troubles or other worries or relationship problems. Now we have more energy to focus on forward motion. I love that analogy. And actually, Roland, I'm gonna dive a little deeper into your analogy because I think it's a perfect one. Okay.

Sometimes what we do is we're trying to find the hole. So we think that the problem is our looks. And especially as women, we try to get have the nicest booty, get the best makeup Yes. Have the most filtered selfies, whatever, whatever, whatever. And we try to plug up the hole, but we still keep sinking.

We don't know why. We're sinking because we're trying to plug up a hole that's not the problem. Yes. How we see ourselves and how we value ourselves is the root problem. Yes.

而且就像我說的，它會影響我們所有的行為，包括職業、個人生活、人際關係等等，所有方面。哦，而且它還會阻礙我們的成長。哇。有時我們只是看不到它，這就是為什麼我相信心理治療，你知道，而且，即使你獲得了專業的幫助，但有時你的治療可能來自你的家人，而不是專業人士。說實話，這也沒關係，因為我看過這種方法有效。

If you wanna dive deeply, you you know, eventually, you wanna go to a professional, but some people don't need that. Yeah. I'm just gonna tell you the truth. Wow. So But it is helpful to have somebody who is who can be objective because they're not a part of your life, which is where a professional can come in.

當然。只要確保你找的人不是臨床訓練過的機器人，而且在他們和你說話時表現得像真人一樣就好。是的。這樣的人確實存在，但你得去主動尋找他們。不過，我的意思是，你的比喻很棒，因為阻礙我們前進的錨，就是我們的自我價值。

Wow. Because when your self value is good, that anchor begins to lift and it won't hold you back anymore. I wanna go back to something I said earlier too. When, when we hate ourselves, it is easier to hate other people. But also, likewise, the more we love ourselves, the easier it is to love other people.

That's beautiful. The easier it is to not hate people. Yes. The slower you're gonna be to hate people because it's going to be a less familiar arena. When you live in self hatred Yes.

跟其他人吐槽這事兒，嗯，這很容易，因為你已經住在那裡了。是的。你已經習慣這輛車了。哦，它就像個音叉。我看過一張它像音叉的照片。

You just oh, that vibration is so familiar. It's just easy to spew out. Hey. And that's interesting because I was reading something the other day where, you know, like a person, when it comes to unconditional love or joy or some of those things, some people you run across, they may have never experienced that at all. They may have you know, they've heard those words, but they've never felt that or experienced that.

And I that's a that's kind of a that's a that's a sad thing to me. And I would ask myself how many things have I tried to experience or work on or do. I I I'm not I don't even know what that feels like. And maybe people's I think. Yes.

People's value is like that too. Like, some people may have gotten a message from society or culture or or some of their peers or or whoever was in their life that they've never even heard or felt a message about, oh, I have value. Never even heard that. Mhmm. And and that's, you know, that's the great thing about working with people and having a message about value or like yourself working with the teens or whoever you touch.

The opportunity every day we have to gift people with a message about value and hope and not even we don't even need words. You know what I'm saying? Like like, just sometimes just by your your demeanor or your spirit or just that touch that with without words, you can help people see that they have value and but much more so with conversation and words. Yes. So you're you're diving into what I was gonna, bring up next.

And one of the reasons, talking about the reasons why self hatred exists. It is not the same for each of us. We all have different life experiences. So we arrive at that for different reasons. But I just wanna talk about the main big ones that I see.

Uh-huh. And I know that you see too. And to dive a little deeper into, to part of what you were just saying is we, as humans, we allow everyone else to tell us what our value is. And until we know better that we just take on whatever people tell us. Wow.

我們之所以會恨自己，原因之一就是我舉個例子，因為不幸的是，這種事真的發生過。你是我的孩子。我卻把你當垃圾一樣對待，因為你長得像你爸爸，我恨他。所以，我把你養大，就用「你不是垃圾，因為他不是垃圾」這樣的心態。有些人會這樣說話，也會這樣對待自己的孩子，真可恥。

It's very it's very, very bad, but it's real for some people. Uh-huh. And sometimes sometimes you have it can come from a parent or just your environment in general. So you can have an environment where nobody in your household tells you you have value. They only tell you what's wrong with you.

They never tell you what's right with you. That can develop a form of self hatred. There are societal issues that can develop a form of self hatred. I'm a black woman in America. Thirty Years ago, a young black girl having a sense of pride about being a young black girl, that barely existed.

We were taught we were taught culturally in this country to hate ourselves. We now have done better, and we're getting that we're not you know, we haven't arrived, but we're still getting that message across that we do have value in, you know, black girl magic and all that stuff. Yes. And and there there's there's beauty in some of that because now we live in a society where I'm not just a black woman. I'm a plus size woman.

I've always been big all my life. I'm not built to be skinny. I never will be. And as a plus size woman, I can speak to that personally. It's very easy to hate yourself because you don't live up to these images.

People don't outright come out and say, you're fat, so you're worthless. They won't say that with words, but they say they've said it through magazines and other forms of media. I'll just say it media, TV, magazine, whatever. They'll say it through different forms of media. So you have society telling you, you ain't shit, and that's it.

You know? And then you might have somebody at home telling you the same thing. Well, it's quite natural to develop a sense of self hatred if this is what you're being fed constantly. Yeah. That that's that's, that's painful to know the reality of that.

And that's why I think it's so important to help people see their value different than Yes. Than me telling you about me telling Fatima about your value. But when Fatima sees your value, then the game changes. And I I just love that because, like, what you're saying is so maybe there's influences, culture, and society, and how we're raised, that message of I have no value. But I've that's so important because when we see our value, then we can walk away from that experience and, and just see it so different.

It's like when our our advantage is, like, if we grow up, maybe we've grown up and our parents and our peers have told us about our value, but what happens when you're in that place when the message is different than that? What carries you is that I see my value no matter who I am and where I'm at. Yes. Yes. And I think that's so important, especially for for women to see that.

就像我之前討論的，我有一個雙框圖示，它能幫助人們區分他們的技能、能力、外表等等，以及他們真正的價值。如果我們不區分它們，我們就會覺得我們的價值觀總是在攻擊我們。然後我們就會花費精力去為自己或他人建立價值。但如果我們能區分它們，就會帶來巨大的改變。就像我們之前討論的，如果我是一個跑步者，摔倒了，摔斷了腿，哦，不。

我沒有任何價值。我無法為球隊做出任何貢獻。我做不到。我就是二號，我一文不值。等等。

You're not worthless. You're this ego box yourself is the only thing that's changed. You now have a broken leg, and yes, it's gonna be inconvenient, but your value hasn't even blinked. It's exactly the same. Like your soul real soul value.

And I think too, like, you know, like we're talking, maybe I've been abused or I'm divorced or I'm going through financial troubles. That's your ego box. That's yourself having those troubles and struggles and issues. But my value, your value has never changed. It will always be the same, and you have always had value.

And I just I I that's the message both of us are passionate about instilling in in people. I wanna go back to something you said a moment ago because I think it's a critical, critical piece of this conversation. If I want you, I can see your value all day long, but my opinion doesn't matter because I don't live your life. Yeah. I'm not inside your head making decisions.

I'm not you. So even though I can see that you acting like a pebble, but you really a diamond, you need to see your own brilliance so you can start acting like a diamond. Yes. And and as a coach, that's that's what I do. And sometimes it's sometimes it's challenging because sometimes you just wanna smack the bad thoughts out of their head and put in the good ones.

But, you know, that's kind of illegal, and it doesn't really work. It doesn't really work like that. Like, that's what you wanna do. Like, they get so stupid. You wanna do that.

But at the end of the day, you need to see your own value. And I'm gonna talk to the audience for a second. If you are one of the people we're talking about, you quietly listening in your bedroom with your headphones or in your car, wherever you are, and ain't nobody around. No one ain't be listening to this because we talking about you. We want you to get a lot out of this message.

我們希望你反思一下。你真的在自我厭惡嗎？但為什麼呢？這才是解決這個問題的起點。當你自我厭惡時，你的行為可能是個問題，但這不是根源。

You it's not the root. The root is how you see yourself and affects every single area of your life. Why do you hate yourself? Who told you you're worthless? Who told you you're not worth loving?

為什麼你相信這一點？我希望你現在就問自己這個問題。為什麼？因為當你開始問這個問題時，你就能開始回答了。但你必須先問自己這個問題。

Oh, that's so true. You know, Fatini, that makes me think of something that we get so distracted and busy with just surviving. What you're talking about, I I think, is the thriving part of, you know, just just Mhmm. Just to take the time away from that the busyness, the hecticness, our mess, the life, and just to to dig deep. Hey.

讓我們深入探討一下這背後的根本原因，以及由此帶來的奢侈。你知道嗎？我感同身受，或許我們都經歷過。我們處在那種生存的環境中，沒有時間。這就是這期播客的主題。

Hey. Let's let's stop. Let's think about that. Let's let's see what's what's happening here and kind of trying to figure some of those things out and see things different and see our value different, appreciate ourself, and appreciate other people. You know, we were talking about this earlier too.

I use this little scale, like a doctor scale, pain scale from one to 10. And it's it's a great conversation, like, just asking people how they perceive their value on a scale of one to 10. You know, some of us might feel, well, I'm at eight or four, or if I spill the coffee on my wife's computer, I'm I'm, you know, where am I at? But I I mean, from my perspective of this, people you are at a 10. When I present this, I say, you're a 10, I'm a 10, that person's a 10 as far as real soul value.

Person that's maybe really struggling with suicidal ideation, they're at a two, or they feel like they're one. Well, hey. Listen. I've got some really good news for you because you've always had value, and you are a 10. No question about it.

And so I throw this out there too. I see somebody in the audience, and I say, oh, oh, I'm so sorry. There's a six. How'd you get in here? But I I say that because it's so easy for us.

You know, we see our we think, oh, yeah. Like you said earlier, everybody's a 10. I understand the value of other people, but if there was an exception, I knew there would be no hope for me. I'm yeah. Of course.

I'm a six. You know? But I I say that because they're the situation for which there's no hope doesn't even exist. And and I just love to point that out to people. There may be we may not have a skill set.

We may we may be just a mess as far as our own personal experience or life, or I call it that ego box, but that does not change our real value. And I I just think that's that's so good to bring to people's attention and to bring that to people's awareness because so much of the opposite message has either come from abuse or our own thoughts and our own mind, or somebody's told us the opposite of that. And and too, like you mentioned, when we start seeing our own value, we see, well, maybe it's this other person here. They actually have value too, and I can see them different now than I did at one time instead of self hate and hate toward the other person. Now when that changes to value and love and a different perspective, we we then we share that with other people.

I wanna take a deeper dive into one word that you just said. Okay. And I think it's a critical piece of understanding for those who are in this self hatred mode right now. Because I'll be honest with you. I truly believe at least 80% of them have been abused.

And that word is abuse. Let's break down that word. Okay. Abuse abuse means abnormal use. It's actually a compound word that comes from abnormal use.

Gotcha. You were abused as a child. You were abnormally used as a child. So your value has derived from something that wasn't right in the first place. So now you think that your value is what it was when you were raped or molested or beaten or whatever form of abuse you suffered.

Your abnormal use does not define who you are unless you let it. A diamond is beautiful and brilliant and worth something. But if you decide to use diamond, to use your diamond, to throw it on the ground like a pebble, that doesn't change its worst worth. You are abnormally using a diamond. And very often, we don't recognize that about ourselves.

And I'm talking to the audience right now because I know there are many listening right now, and I'm talking directly to you. It's sensitive, and it hurts. But I'm gonna dive in anyway because you need to understand that your abuse is not your value. Oh, yes. They misuse you.

Their misuse is not your value. You need to start the journey of figuring out your own value, And you begin the journey of self love. Unfortunately, the word self love has been so overused and misused and watered down. So I want you to understand audience when I say that, I actually mean for real, for real, start to love yourself. Yes.

And you can't, you're not. And I I'm, you're just not going to do that. You're not, well, I wouldn't say you can't. You're not likely to do that on your own. We need help with that, man.

And I want y'all to understand something too. I'm talking about this subject because I am the subject. I have been there. I no longer have the self hatred. At least I don't believe I do, but I did live there.

I don't live there anymore, but I have to go back to make sure I didn't leave anything behind in that house. I understand self sabotage because of self hatred. I had to do a lot of self examination to stop bad habits in my life that came from the root of self hatred. Not going for my dreams, not going for them in full because I ain't worth it. I can't do that.

同時，我鼓勵別人，真心相信他們，推動他們前進，卻因為自我憎恨而裹足不前。所以我談論這個，不僅是因為它是一個概念，而是因為我也曾經是其中的一員。是的，沒錯。法蒂瑪，難道我不覺得我又回到自愛了嗎？就像你提到的，我覺得這是一個很陌生的概念，很難定義，但感覺並不陌生。

It feels so, maybe unattainable. It just feels so different because it's counterculture. It's so Yeah. Yeah. It's just so foreign.

感覺就像，哇。這太奇怪了。我簡直不敢相信。我從未觸碰過，也從未感受過。就像你說的，也許我們一定幫助過我們理解其中的一些事情。

And, you know, I think for me too, a couple you know, it it's a guy thing or something. It was in me that I felt I had to do everything myself. And if I had to ask for help, I always associated that with shame and humility. Nothing positive. But when I got to the place one and the same.

Yeah. When when I got to the place that I could ask for help, it's like a whole new world opened up to me. Yes. It does. It does.

Yes. Yeah. A %. A %. Yeah.

And it is okay to do that. Now in your book, you you tell us the name of your book because I said you're an author. But Yes. The name of my book is the the value message, which is, anyway, yeah, I just love that title. That's what it's this it it's about that, the value message toward people, toward your life, toward our self.

是的。你之所以參加這個節目，是因為我了解你的處境，我們都一樣。我們堅信人們應該看到自己的價值，並盡力幫助他們找到自己的價值。是的。我非常相信你在這方面的教導。所以，告訴人們如何找到你。

So I have a website, the valuemessage.com, and everything is there. Just, information about me, a lot of positive information, links. Mhmm. You know, just like I just want it to be a resource of people that, hey. There's no question about your value.

And I like, my tagline is that you have value and there is hope. And I just I feel like that's, that's really the essence of the point I'm trying to get across. And there's one quote that I I, quote a lot that I think covers what I'm trying to do as well. And it's the it's this, that if others see your value, you're advantaged. But if you see your value, you're unshakable.

And I feel like that's the that's the game changer when we can see our value and we can have when people can help us see that and we can, you know, you know, like, you can't shake me out of that tree. There's no question about that. That's when the game changes. And that's what but, like, that's the thrill of being able to touch people with that message is is that, hey. Something's changed here because I I see my value.

I see other people's value. It's not just something it's not just that message, that fluff message we're talking about. The oxygen in a box, it doesn't really mean anything. But something changes when we see our own value. But, yeah, the valuemessage.com.

Alright. Great. I wish we could talk for, like, sixteen more hours. Oh, that'd be fantastic. So Oh, yeah.

Thank you. Thank you so, so, so much for taking the time to come on. You're welcome. I'm this has this has been great. Yes.

It has been. And y'all y'all didn't even hear the conversation we had off the air. It was we probably should have recorded then, but we couldn't stop talking. It's just we're both so passionate about this topic. And, you know, both of us feel this way.

And I I I can speak for Roland when I say this. We care about you. We want to see you be the best that you can be. I 100%. Who God created you to be.

哦天哪。是的。開始愛自己會幫助你實現目標。它不是食譜中唯一的成分，但它是其中很重要的一部分。是的。

是的。原料。我們支持你，夥計。我們會一直支持你。沒錯。

是的。所以，我建議你們去看看他的網站。順便說一下，羅蘭不是那種只會賣書的人。他的網站上有很多東西雖然不會為他帶來任何收入，但會對你有幫助。他在上面引用了一些名言，以及其他他認為對其他人有幫助的東西，但他並沒有收錢放在那裡。

So I I I love that about him as well. So please take a look at his website, and you you might find some things that are helpful to you. You can just be on this conversation. By all means, thank you so much. And now for a mind shifting moment.

如果你今天在聽我們談話，並且因為我們談論的是你而對其中的一些內容產生了共鳴，我希望你能想像一下。樓梯是一步一步爬上去的，所以我希望你想像那些長長的、陡峭的階梯。而在這些階梯的頂端，是健康、平衡的自尊，健康、平衡的自我價值，以及健康、平衡的你。樓梯是一步一步爬上去的。你的第一步是什麼？

Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.