Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. Today, we have with us Roland Sarver, a return guest. He is from Illinois.

He's an author and a motivational speaker. This man has a lot of amazing things to say, which is why he's back on the show again. So today, we're gonna talk about, how to separate your skills from self value and why it matters. So how are you doing today, Rowan? I am doing great.

I'm glad, and I'm glad to have you back on. We always have really great conversations on and off air. I honestly I feel like the conversations we have on off air are so rich that we probably should just record when we talk. Yeah. Sure.

Yeah. It's a great it's a great time. Alright. So let's I as you know me, I like to dive right into it. Let's first things first.

Let's start talking about what is a gift or talent and, you know, in the context of what we're talking about in this conversation. Okay. Yeah. I guess my thought is, a gift or a talent, sometimes people are born with it or acquire it. But maybe, an ability that builds confidence, helps you, interact better with people, or somehow puts you in a space to where you can serve others.

Okay. I'm gonna dive. I'm gonna give a little deeper, a definition of that, that I usually explain to people. Your gift or talent is in fact what you are born with, skill that you're born with. Sometimes it's developed, sometimes it's not.

It depends on how much effort you put into it. So gift or talent is the ability to sing. You know, I can sing, but I am not Beyonce. You know, the gift or talent might be physical ability. It may be your ability to convince others of things.

You make a good salesman. You know, your your gift or talent may be may be seeing things that other people don't in a sign on a scientific level, which is why you discover the cure for cancer, etcetera, etcetera. But you can you can take a talent and turn it into a very strong skill, but you have to develop it. Just because you were born to sing, you'll never sing if you don't open your mouth. And, also, even if you start singing, you might still need voice lessons or some guidance so that you can maximize that gift or talent.

And I'm saying that because these details are gonna matter as as, I'm saying that to you audience because these details are gonna matter as Roland and I are talking. So you understand what we're referring to because we're gonna talk about all the different parts of of everything I just explained. Alright. So let's also talk about what is the danger in holding your value as your gifts or talents. Yeah.

That's a that's a great question. I the reason I think about this is because if we have a a gift or a talent, say we're good in sports for one thing, and we tend to so so we're good at the sport, and we put a lot of weight on that. So what happens when we lose the game? Right. Oh, if if, if we think our value is completely centered around that, then it could be devastating.

And that's something I try to help people with that as we separate our value from our talents, then we have maybe a better ability to serve or more energy to free up if we can balance that out. Hey. Oh, I didn't I wasn't able to play like I wanted to, or maybe I did, but my opponent was really good. So if the game didn't go like I thought it should or I wanted it to, I'm not as maybe devastated or set back because my real depth of value isn't tied up in that skill in that skill or that talent. Mhmm.

So now I have more I I'm not as as taken aback. So now I've got the energy and space to improve my game or work on something or or consult with somebody else or coaching that helps me be in a better space the next time. I'm gonna back up a little bit to what you first said and piggyback off that because I think you used an excellent example of sports. I'm gonna use another example after that that I think is very relevant to others as well. Okay.

But for sports, you know, you have a guy who plays he's the best linebacker for his high school team. He's looking at going to, you know, I don't know, the NFL in the future or something, and he's just really good. He's he's very talented, linebacker just like one of the best that any most people have seen. Yes. But when he puts his the problem with there's nothing wrong with him being that talented.

There's nothing wrong with it going to NFL. There's nothing wrong with him becoming a millionaire, making, making a lot of money off that talent. That is that's actually a beautiful thing. But when all of his value is based on that, when he breaks his leg and can no longer play in the NFL, what's he gonna do then? And those are real things that happen with people.

你是個歌手，突然發生了一些事，例如喉嚨被割破了，或是得了喉癌之類的疾病，你再也無法唱歌了。然後呢？把你的價值寄託在這些事情上的問題在於，有些人會自殺，因為他們覺得自己已經沒有任何價值了。如果我不能唱歌，活著就沒有意義了。如果我不能踢足球，不能得到我想要的所有關注和我想要的所有女孩，活著也沒有意義了。

There's no point. And they they they now suicide is an extreme reaction, but it is a real one. Yes. And your act some people's reactions might be other things. You know?

They might be now they go through this depression because they they're not getting the attention they want anymore. I am a beautiful supermodel. And now that I got this skin rash, this skin disease, makeups can't cover it up. And I can't model anymore because they can't you know? Whatever the reason is, I can't model anymore.

And so now what's my value? What do I do? So it's very important that we as human beings and this is a this is a show for teenagers, so this is especially relevant as a teen. You've got to build yourself. You've got to know what your value is outside of your gift or talent.

Because if your if your gift or talent is something that can get broken, something that can go wrong, in whatever fashion, whatever the details are, then what? And that's this is why you see people go through the things they do, especially when they're famous. I I think it happens to people who are not famous, but it's most obvious in famous people. You're like, but you're you were so great. You were so great at this this famous singer, this famous actor, whatever.

And now you're nothing. But the truth is you were never nothing. You just think you're nothing because your value was put in the wrong box. Yeah. That is so good.

That's so true. Yes. Now speaking of boxes, you have this great analogy about boxes. Why don't you tell the audience what it is? Okay.

I I I'd love to, and and I think so much like what you're saying. If if we can separate how we have in our mind that real value from our talents, it's so helpful. And because, like, having conversations like we're having, I think it's counterculture because we're so used to seeing the two put together in culture. But I talk with people about these these two boxes. I I say, here's here's two boxes.

One box I call the value box, and it's iconic or it represents a real true innate value that never changes. And like you said that it is it's been it's been incredible from the start. And then the other box I talk about is the I call it the ego box because it just represents ourself, everything about us, our hair color, our talents, our gifts, everything. And this is what people see. No two ego boxes have ever been the same.

But when we when we when we think about that, those two when those two boxes, if they're together, my talents and my value, like we were talking about. I'm so I'm so set back because something has happened to my I call it this ego box. My leg is broken, Herman. I don't have the ability that I did did have. Well, what a relief when something happens to this I'll call it the that ego box.

And and then what what helps me is that, you know what, my value has not changed. It's never changed. Nothing's different about it. Mhmm. And that's a that's a that's a great thing to fall back on.

And like like I said, just have conversations about this to bring these things into our awareness to help us to help us see and, again, separate our real value from who we are, our talents, our gifts, and what we have naturally. So how do we separate those two? We we can we talk all day you and I can talk all day and night about how about how important it is to separate our actual value from our gifts and talents. And let me rephrase that, from attention. Because we get we get attention for our gifts and talents.

This is especially true the bigger the platform you're on, which is why I use famous people a lot in this conversation because they're the most visible examples of what we're talking about. You know? Oh, you're famous. You're famous. I mean, look at actors.

天哪。演員就是最好的例子。是的。你22歲，性感漂亮，演過很多電影，演技精湛，名氣很大，好萊塢的每個人都想得到你。現在你55歲了。

你完蛋了。你唯一能找到的角色，如果有的話，就是一個老太太，或是某人的媽媽。這是真的。是的。還有一些人，如果你們現在有人在聽我說話，你們就知道我在說什麼了。

Some of those people be they don't know how to value themselves. So what do they do? They go and they get BBLs. They get plastic surgery, and they do everything else to try to revisit that time as long gone. Now that is a separate subject, but it's but it's not really.

It's related to this. Your value is in the attention that you get. And very often, we get attention because of our gifts. She's very charismatic. He's a really good speaker.

She's a great singer. Oh my god. That woman can dance, whatever it is. And then we get all this attention because of our skill. Great actor.

We get all of our attention because of that skill. So then we take we take our value and we put it in the wrong box. Absolutely. We put it in that box that says, oh, well, my ego is boosted now because I'm getting all this attention, so therefore I'm valuable. What if that box get crushed and run over by a car?

那你怎麼辦？是啊。是啊。等你沒了錢沒了名氣，你身邊還會有人珍惜你嗎？是啊。

When you're not on the the football field, you know, everybody's coveting you and wants you to be wants you to, you know, sign up the next contract, blah blah blah, whatever the details are. What then? What then? So having said all of that, I started to ask you this question, and I went on my little rampage. But No.

沒關係。說出來很重要。明白嗎？你們可能看不到，但羅蘭臉上露出各種表情，還用力地點頭，表示他贊同我的觀點，因為我們兩個都對我現在說的話充滿熱情。所以，肯定是的。

But so how do we how do we teach people to how can we separate that value? How can we separate our true actual value and, you know, from our gifts and our talents and the attention that we get? And then how do we how do we recognize when that's happened? Yeah. That's so good.

You know, a lot of it so much is who we hang out with. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a it's a language because if, say say, four round famous people, we can either focus on the oh and ah of whatever their talent is, or just say, you know, like what it would mean to somebody who's who hears all those accolades all the time. And somebody comes up to them and says, you know what? You're amazing.

Plus you're talented. You know what I'm saying? Like like speaking to that value box. Oh, I love that. I love that.

就像，而且因為它又太反主流了。媒體、我們自己，我們如此關注這些，關注才華和自我，這才是反主流文化。但是，對話也像是一種思維轉換器。它是一種思維轉換。它是一種對話轉換，嗯。

只是想開始跟大家聊聊，嘿。我想幫你從不同角度看待事物，或者說，我已經學會了從不同角度看待事物。是的。是的。隨著時間的推移。你知道，我用這個例子來說明，就像你的祖父母，當他們看到孫子孫女時，從某種意義上說，他們看到的只是價值框，因為他們……沒錯。

That's true. Care that you've spilled the milk and messed your diaper. You're just incredible right out of the chute. And vice versa too. I love that because I think grandkids, I tell this story.

我奶奶，這，這真的很奇怪。她臉頰邊有一顆痣。我小時候，大概三、四歲，或是兩歲的時候，會坐在她腿上。我不知道。但我能用手感覺到，就像那種紋理。

And it, it seems kind of weird, but I didn't care. I love my grandma. She loved me. I didn't see her ego box and that she was maybe older and maybe frail and not able to do what she did at one time. I saw her value and, it was because she cared about me and I cared about her.

And it just, again, it just seemed like it's kind of a language too that we we start talking with to people. I absolutely love that you use that analogy. And, as you were talking, I realized I do that. When I'm talking especially to young women, because that that tends to be a focus of mine, in in a lot of that I do. When I'm talking to young women, I might look at someone and go, wow, you are beautiful.

And then I'll follow it with, and I'm not talking about your looks. Oh, that's so good. And they sometimes don't know how to take that because it's countercultural, as you said. And and but then I will I'm always very specific. I never make general statements like that to someone without being specific.

Because if if you don't, they just take it as another fake compliment, which is I'm gonna do a whole episode on fake compliments. That is one of the worst thing you can do is give fake compliments. You're better off shutting up, but that's another subject. I I don't want people to take what I say as fake compliments. I want them to take what I say to heart because I don't say things I don't mean.

And if I tell you that I think you're talented, you're beautiful, you're smart, you're intelligent, whatever I you know, whatever it is, I mean it or I shut up. And if you say you're dumb and you are dumb, I'm just gonna shut up because you're right. So, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna lie to you, which is why people do take what I say because they know I don't say things I don't mean. You know? Uh-huh.

And I love that. But I want to I want to be a little more specific role. And let's start. Let's use you as an example. Name one of your gifts and talents.

一兩句話。傾聽。我覺得自己是個很好的傾聽者。好的。還有什麼？

好的。我，我非常關心別人，無論他們是誰，發生什麼事，在哪裡，何時。是的，你也是。我覺得我擅長將傾聽和指導結合。

I can hear what people are saying and communicate that back and and kinda understand where people are at. Okay. Very similar to me, because we're we're both coaches, so I guess that would be true. So I hear listening, coaching, and what was the middle one? Listening, coaching and, like to to understand where people are at and to No.

There was something between there. I love people. Compassion. Yes. Compassion.

是的。同情。關懷。我想說的是更貼心。所以，傾聽、關心、指導。

Those are three different things. And they are they are skills. They are gifts. And the reason I'm mentioning that is I'm using Roland as an example. He is gifted in those areas.

Other people care and other people coach and other people, you know, are, they they they listen or at least they they start to listen. They look like they're listening. They hear you. But then there's a level of it that's a gift. So it's not the same thing as I heard what you said.

這和傾聽不一樣。因為當你傾聽時，你不僅聽到了單詞，還聽到了單詞背後的所有含義。你聽到了單字的來源，以及圍繞這些單字的所有其他框架。然後你處理這些，獲得理解，這樣你就可以用它來指導。對嗎？

And when you coach, you explain things to people in a way that relates to them. Now that I happen to know because I've talked to you enough that you are you are gifted when it comes to coaching and that you will change up what you're saying according to who you're talking to. So if if if if you feel you're talking to a teen and it's not working, then you're not gonna talk to them the same way you talk to the adult. You're going to switch it up a little bit. You'll find another analogy to use, which is the exact same thing that I use.

Now listening, if you go deaf, have you lost your value? I have not. Now, what makes you valuable? I tie it to that value box and just the mind shift that whatever happens to myself or my ego box does not affect my value, my deep seated innate value at all. Let's go a little deeper.

K. 再說，你說得對。你確實有價值。你應該勾選這個選項，然後提醒自己。這，這，並沒有改變我的價值，但是什麼賦予了你價值呢？

Just the, the existence and that I have, like my, like the sole value that there is something in people that is it's, I'll say it's tangible. It's important. It's powerful. It's it exists. And it's, it's, just say it like this, like it's unseen in a sense.

And that that's part of it. It's often unseen. Yeah. But it is there. And I guess it's just the conviction or the the faith feeling of that that the existence of that is is the, the thing that gives people value.

And and another part that I use, like, on the on my workshop is I have this scale. Maybe we talked about it last time that I I talk with people about, like, a doctor's pain scale from one to 10. And I say that, you know, when we start talking to people, they may feel like their value, oh, I'm a six or I'm a eight or something like that. I'm saying people are a 10 and it's it's the convincing or conversations, the mind shift as far as a person's value. I I'm a I'm a 10.

當我把自己的內在價值定為10分時，我不會……我不會……我不會為此爭吵、爭論、懷疑或質疑。不管怎樣，也許我沒有天賦。也許我沒有，也許我聾了。也許我不會說話，但我的價值仍然是10分。為什麼呢？

It's, because because of the gift of being human. And it's something I will tell you why you would still have a value of a 10. Okay. If you went deaf and you couldn't hear anybody anymore Yes. Your your your listening wouldn't go away.

It would just change how you listen. You're gonna have to write people instead, but you'd still be able to use that deep sense of caring. Interesting. Yes. Have to communicate it in a different way.

But some people don't understand that, and they think if I go deaf, well, then now I've lost my value. And I'm just using that as an example, because there's there's so many different gifts and talents and values in people. But you were you would still be valuable. I see you as still valuable because your innate ability to care is still going to be there. If you go deaf, it would just change how you go about it, how you communicate that care and concern.

But your value is still because you care, not just because you exist, because you you're caring, you're compassionate, because you are valuable to the human race. And if you went deaf tomorrow, that would not change unless you let it. Now, the reason why I'm grilling and rolling like this audience is because I want you guys to have the understanding that this is the same for you. Take a look at what is your value. Not just what isn't, but what is your value?

What is awesome about you? And if you think you have no gifts and talents, I'll tell you right now, you're demented because you do. You absolutely % do. God did not create any of you without a purpose in mind. He didn't create you and go, oh, what is it gonna do with that?

I don't know. Just live. He had a purpose when he made you, and it's up to you to find out what that is. So this is something I'm very passionate about because I I do coach on purpose, and this is directly tied into that. So I like to dive deep into the topic because I think if we don't, a lot of people just kinda get lost in the sauce, so to speak.

But I was grilling I was, again, audience, I was grilling Roland just now because I hope you guys could hear that he does actually have a lot of value. If he broke his leg tomorrow, if he lost his hearing tomorrow, he would still be valuable. What would change is how that value would manifest itself. So if you are playing sports and you can't physically do anything anymore, I promise you, you have other talents and gifts that are valuable. They're probably in your mind and you just haven't accessed them yet because you stayed on the surface of the physical.

Yes. You were pretty. You're so pretty, and and you get all this attention everywhere you go because, girl, you got a nice ass, a pretty face, great tits, blah blah blah blah blah. You just look like what everybody wants to be. Right?

你明天就要出門了，看起來只想出門。你看起來糟透了。那怎麼辦？你的價值沒變。現在，如果你像羅蘭說的那樣，把你所有的價值都放在那個盒子裡，把你所有的價值都放在那個盒子裡，嗯，我很漂亮，我所有的價值都基於此。

當這一切崩塌時，你也會跌倒。但如果你正確地看待自己的價值，並明白除了你的肉體和容貌之外，你還有更多值得珍惜的東西，因為女孩，把這些東西作為衡量一切的標準太膚淺了。當你意識到你還有比這些更重要的東西時，失去一切，哦，那仍然會很痛苦。它仍然會對你的精神造成一些影響，但它不會讓你跌落那麼低，因為你明白除了那些吸引你注意力的東西之外，你的價值是什麼。是的。

That's really good. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that because, you know, like we're talking about the counterculture side of that, that, that's that's just such a mind shift. And I love having conversations with yourself and with people because it's such a different, paradigm. And, you know, like, that's the the moments out outside of what we're talking about.

But the moments are like what is tied with growth and understanding of, oh, hey. This this isn't just how I thought or how I was raised, but this is, this is a a nugget of wisdom that goes with growth that that just brings, new and good things into people's lives. Kind of the the root of coaching. Yes. Absolutely.

You're you're a % right about that. I wanna, I wanna add, something here. I'm gonna make a little comment, and then I'll ask Roland to, to add your piece of it. I like to make sure that we're also giving practical advice to people. So I love what Roland said earlier about surrounding yourself with the right people.

Number one, if you were trying to find your value and you know that maybe I need to to figure this part out that they're talking about because I don't have them separated or I don't think I do, maybe I should maybe I should reassess how I see myself or how I value things. So surrounding yourself with the right people is critical. Number one, do not surround yourself with a bunch of freaking yes men. People that you tell you, oh, yes. Everything is flowers and butterflies, no matter what you just say and do.

Those people cause you to be your worst self, not your best self. Surround yourself with people that'll be real and keep it honest with you. That'll just tell you, you know, if you ask them a question, they'll give you an honest answer. Do you think that I was rude just now? No.

不。你看，他們想錯了。不。你剛才太粗魯了。是的。

You were. You need somebody who's gonna tell you that, and then you can work out what to do next time or try to figure it out. Surround yourself with the right people, but something else practical that all of you can do. Get a few people that you're close to, who you know are honest and not yes men. Ask them what good things they see about you.

因為我向你保證，有人會看到你的天賦和才華。他們會看到你身上你可能都看不到的價值。到處都是人，而我既沒有天賦也沒有才華。就像我之前說的，這完全是一派胡言，絕對不是真的。

It's just that it's just a matter of whether or not you find it. Yeah. So ask the people around you, what gifts and talents do you see in me? Because those conversations will plant the seeds that you need to grow the tree of me, to grow the tree of of self value and begin to see the greatness that's in you. Your physical ability, your acting ability, your your gift for whatever you do for work, whatever you do for leisure, that is different than just your actual value.

So start to you know, if you're listening, those are two things that you can do. Surround yourself with the right people and then ask only don't ask the whole world, just particular people whose opinion you trust or who you know will be honest with you. You know? Just anyway, you know, I'll be honest with you. What do you think what do you see that's good about me?

你不必問他們天賦或才能，因為人們對這個詞的理解不一樣。有時你可以直接問，你覺得我有什麼優點？當你一遍又一遍地聽到同樣的事情時，你就會明白這其中的道理。沒錯。你會怎麼回答呢？

I like that it is so difficult to see, our positive side or to see some of those Yeah. Talents you're speaking about somehow. But to other people, they're as clear as day. And we're the same way. Like, we see somebody else's gift, and we can't figure out why they don't see it.

And and I just think that's really great conversation too, to help people to to really look and see or find out, like you're saying, talk to people that can give you some input because a % you have talent and you you're, you're amazing. There's a gift. You have a lot of potential, but just being with the right people or people that that'll give you honest feedback, like you're talking about is, is coaching in itself, just therapeutic, just that people are, have a good, a message for you about your value because it's, it's difficult. It's a mind shift again, to see that I might have a talent and I might have some value because either culturally or just naturally, it's difficult for us to see that. Do you have any, do you have any advice for the audience?

Well, it it's, it kinda ties with one of my favorite quotes in in coaching is I'm the end goal isn't for me to tell you about your value. The end goal is for you to tell you about your value and your talents. I love that. I love that. And Yes.

因為，因為，那就是遊戲規則改變的時候。是的。當我們能夠看到的時候，嘿。有時我想，也許我們害怕這可能是驕傲之類的。如果我們發現自己身上有天賦或才能，很難說，哦，是的。

That's me. I have value. And and I just love that that it's I I don't want for me to tell you about your value. I want you to tell you about your value. Yes.

是的。很棒的建議，非常棒的建議。能讓人們受益匪淺。你改變了人們的思維方式，這很棒。你說得完全正確。

So go and tell the tell the audience, how what else you do and, we'll all let you do and how they can find you. Well, you know, we had talked before the show. I've I've just, I come up with a workshop that I've been trying to help people with and develop. And it's just a little conversation with two worksheets and trying to help people to to flesh out those two boxes we've talked about. And just the end game of exactly like where I was saying, to help people see their value.

你可以在 valuemessage.com 找到我。我所有的資訊都在那裡。我盡量保持簡潔。我在 2022 年出版了一本書，基本上，我想告訴人們，他們有價值，有潛力，這就是我所做的，我熱愛它。

在結束之前，我還想補充一點，想跟各位觀眾說一下。我之所以如此嚴厲地追問羅蘭，讓他明確自己的價值，是因為你們很多人聽說自己很有價值，但你們並不相信，因為這不是針對你們的。所以你們會覺得這只是我們為了自我感覺良好而說的胡說八道，但這確實是真的。我給你們的建議，如果你們真的付諸行動，就能幫助你們發現自己身上哪些具體的東西是有價值的。所以我勸告並強烈敦促你們所有人，一定要這樣做，去發現你們自身的價值所在。

Because once you start to realize, some of you, that you're not a pebble, you're actually a diamond. You will begin to behave like a diamond instead of a pebble, and it will change your life. % truth. I love it. Thank you.

Well, thank you for coming on, Roland. I really appreciate it. It's been, once again, awesome to talk to you, and, I'll probably see you again. Okay. That'd be so good.

是的。非常感謝。現在輪到你轉換思維了。在今天的轉換思維環節，我想在你的腦海裡種下一顆思想種子。你有什麼天賦和才能？

我有個作業要你做。請你拿出一張紙，或是一本小冊子，或是電腦裡的一份文件，隨便你方便用什麼方式。我希望你列出你所有的天賦和才能。然後在紙的另一面，寫下哪些東西讓你變得有價值。寫完之後，請寫信告訴我你的發現。

我向你保證，如果你把它們寫下來，認真思考，它一定會改變你。你擁有哪些天賦和才能？你內心深處埋藏著哪些尚未完全挖掘的寶藏？你內心深處還隱藏著哪些美好的事物，就像一個緊閉的寶箱，你因為各種原因沒有打開，或者說你沒有去挖掘。這些美好的事物是什麼？

I want you to think about it, and I want you to do your homework and write down that sheet of paper. And this isn't for you, for me, it's for you. But if you wanna tell me about it, you can go ahead and contact me. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like, and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter.

If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit fatimabay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking. Tune in for next week.