Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. Today, we have with us Shanti Refuge. She is from the Houston, Texas area.

她是一位心理健康教練，也是一位作家。切爾西，你今天好嗎？我很好。謝謝你的邀請。嗯，謝謝你來。

I can't wait to have this conversation. Let's dive right into it. I like to dive right into it. So Let's go. You're an author.

Yes. But we're gonna talk about that in a second. You're also a mental health coach. What made you decide to become a mental health coach? It was never my intention to be one.

I became one in 2021, and that is, because I had a nervous breakdown in 2018. So, when I went through that process and learned why I went through that process and, you know, I was diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety. And they want to give me antidepressants, and I don't want that. I want to know, you know, why I'm having this nervous breakdown. Why what happened?

What caused it? So, through the holistic approach, I talked to a therapist, and she taught me how to use guided journals. She taught me, everything I needed to know to get myself better, and I used the tools that she suggested. They worked. And I was like, okay.

Well, let me go help somebody else. So that. I love that you decided to take your your your loss and turn it into a win is one way I could word it. Yeah. But you decided to take what you went through and said, you know what?

There's probably other people going through the same thing. Let me see if I can help. Absolutely. Now let's talk about your book. Your book is called Quiet as Kept, which is why we named this episode Quiet as Kept.

Yes. It is about your childhood and adult traumas. Yes. Give us a brief idea of alright. We've all gone through stuff, but maybe your stuff is a little bit different.

請簡單介紹一下讀這本書能帶給我們什麼。這本書能為我們帶來什麼？ 《安靜就是圖克》（Quiet is Took），它能帶給你的好處是，它能讓你產生共鳴。我小時候曾經歷過虐待兒童。我當時是個少女媽媽。

I had my first kid at 14. Oh, wow. And, you know, so just imagine being an eighth grader pregnant. And, I had some made a lot of bad choices. I got arrested when I was 16.

嗯。又糟糕的選擇，不過我總算按時畢業了。我畢業的時候還帶著一個三歲的孩子。哇哦。然後你知道嗎，因為我的被捕紀錄，我很久都找不到工作。

And that was very discouraging, so that led me to do, not not good things. Mhmm. But, you know, I had a series of bad relationships, and, they were bad because of me, not the other person. Okay. I was a serial cheater.

你知道，是的，所有這些最終都讓我吃盡了苦頭。所以，這就是你從這本書所能學到的。你會了解精神崩潰，它到底是什麼，以及如何在不使用處方藥的情況下克服它。我反對這種做法，完全反對。我相信其他人也一樣。

And, you know, I want people to know that they can overcome these past traumas without medication. They just have to be I absolutely love you even more now. So you were able to overcome a lot Mhmm. Without medication. I really want to hone in and emphasize on that.

And it's not that it's not that medication is completely unnecessary. However, I do truly believe that 90% of medications taken by Americans is not needed. I agree. Because we have a we're this entire country is run by the pharmaceutical industry. The Food and Drug Administration, they own it.

Whether it's legal or not, we can put the word in allegedly, you know, for legal reasons. So, yeah, sure, allegedly. But reality, reality is they own us. And, so we are taught, even in the medical schools to rely on medicine. And it's it's to our detriment, and it really harms us, and there's a lot of people running around thinking that they're quote unquote crazy, that they need to be medicated, when in fact they just need therapy.

有些人確實需要藥物治療，但確實有。這確實是事實，但我真的相信其中90%都是胡扯。是的。我同意。我再說一次。

90%都是胡扯。是啊，簡而言之。但我就是喜歡。如果你看不出來的話，我對這個主題非常感興趣。

Because I I really see the harm and the damage that it does, and that's why it makes me mad. That's right. I I I've been through some of my own, you know, issues and things in the past. And Mhmm. When medication was tried to shove down my throat, it actually sobered me up.

I was just like, are you nuts? Yep. Exactly. But anyway, so I love the fact that you, were able to overcome things through actual therapy and your own work. Yes.

Heavy on work. Your own work. Yeah. It sounds like you can correct me if I'm wrong, but for the audience's sake, it wasn't just that your therapy gave you some talking points and you just sat on your butt and did nothing. Right?

No. Absolutely not. You have to do the work. You have to acknowledge your the part you played and whatever it is that happened, and you have to own up on your stuff and be honest. You have to be honest in this process.

Yep. Instead of medicating it. Exactly. And yeah. Because most of the time, medication is used as a pacifier instead of Oh, that's the word I use all the time.

Fixing the actual pacifier. Pacifier. Because it's easier to suck on the pacifier than it is. Exactly. Exactly.

But it gets you nowhere. Yeah. So tell me now, we got a brief understanding of what the book is about, and I'm sure it's chock full of stories. Too many to name. You just gave us a brief overview, but too many to name, obviously, on this episode.

現在告訴我們，你為什麼決定寫這本書？因為很多人都會經歷一些事情。我們每個人都會經歷一些事情。我們並非都會寫書來講述這些事。有些人甚至可能會在電台或播客上登台談論這些事情，但我們不一定會花時間真正寫一本書。

What made you decide to write this book? So that I can reach more people. You know, not everybody's on social media. Not everybody listens to podcasts. And, you know, it was suggested that I write a book.

I had no intentions on writing this book either. But people kept asking, do you have a book? You need a book. Somebody needs to read this. You know, somebody needs to have this in their hands.

So and it took me a year to write this book because I did not wanna write it because it kept triggering me. Having to retell all of this stuff, I had to stop and cry and do do the healing work and then come back and start writing. But once I did it, I'm good now. I think it's I think you just brought a a really important point. When we're dealing with our stuff, we are going to be triggered.

是的。我們不需要害怕被觸發。沒錯。因為當我們被觸發時，可能會很痛，很不舒服。

It can it can go deep. It can really open up old wounds, but sometimes that's how we heal too. Yes. We need to deal with our stuff. You have to rip the Band Aid off and get rid of it.

是的。我很高興你這麼說。現在我想問你這件事。嗯。你說我們私下聊過，你年輕時做過一些見不得的事。

Mhmm. You just told us you were a serial cheater. Yeah. And then you said it came back to bite you in the butt. Yeah.

跟我們講講這個故事吧。我和高中時的戀人談過戀愛。我記得我們從十年級就開始在一起了，大概是在我23歲的時候。我們結婚了，但我並不想結婚。我從來沒有想過。

I never wanted to marry. I didn't. But I did it because my mom wanted me to. But, you know, the whole time we were together, I was not faithful. And he knew.

You know, I told him, and he was just like, okay. And then we moved to Houston, and that was another mistake. I shoulda left them, you know, in my hometown where we were from. But, I, cheated on the last time I cheated on him was with, my best friend. Oh.

是的。當時她和我們住在一起。我們幫了她不少忙，不過等等。我先把這些寫下來，準備寫Lifetime的下一部電影劇本。說吧。

因為它聽起來越來越像了。說吧，就是。這是一部電影。結果，我們只是胡亂瞎搞了一下。

And I think that's when I really, really was like, okay. I'm done playing. And I think that explained why I cheated all the time because I was never satisfied. But when I got with her, I was like, okay. This is it.

I'm a act right now. I'm not gonna cheat. I'm a do right. So when I got with her, I left him for her, and and this is in a book too. I left him for her.

We were together, and I moved her back to my hometown so we could start over. I found a house and, you know, and she cheated on me with a coworker. I lost 50 pounds in three months. That's how heartbroken I was. Wow.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that you reap what you sowed. Yeah. Pretty much. But in multiplicity.

Yes. That's how that's how reaping and sowing is. Yes. For those of you who don't know what I mean when I say that, I use the example of an apple seed. If you plant an apple seed today, you don't just get an apple.

You get a whole tree of apples. It works in multiplicity and it works for both good and bad. So, whether you're planting seeds, you know, of giving, and you reap a harvest later of getting an abundance, you know, whether it's money, whether it's stuff, whether it's whatever. That's one way. Another way is when we plant the seeds of of of deception, we reap destruction.

我一直這麼說，她只是舉個例子。我這麼說不是要貶低香蒂，她已經知道了，我們已經討論過了。我之所以這麼說，是因為你們很多人現在正在播下種子，你們將來會收穫這些種子的後果，然後你們會問為什麼。明白嗎？這並不意味著發生在我們身上的一切都是我們種下的。但如果你種下了種子，你就100%保證能得到回報。

It might not be today, might not be tomorrow, might be years from now. Right. So you'll get it. It's gonna be the way that's effective for you. And so you were really hurt, and I'm sure that you hurt your ex husband.

Yeah. I did. I think I'm more embarrassed him because he knew Yeah. I told him. I said, I think I'm I think I'm interested in girls.

And he was like, okay. That was his answer to everything. Okay. And that was another turn off for me because, like, I don't wanna be with somebody I I can run over. Girl, me too.

Go ahead. And I was so I ran over him. And, you know, I think it was a issue when he I think he thought he was invited, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah. I get it.

And when he found out he wasn't invited, that's when it became a problem. I got you. I was like, okay. Well, I picked her then. And that's what I did.

So when you, and I'm sure I know that there are other stories that you could tell about, you know, seeds that you sowed and then the destruction that you reap later. But I I just think it's important to point that point out to people because very often, we don't get it. You know? We really ignore that fact and don't pay attention to what we're sowing, and people can just get away with doing everybody wrong around us and then wondering why we get crap later. You know?

我當時的想法是，哦，我不會有事的。我只知道我無敵了。我不會有事的。就算有，那又怎麼樣？我能應付。

也許我能接受。你會說這種想法很傲慢嗎？差不多。是啊，是啊。

Probably borderline narcissistic. I don't know if it I don't know if it's necessarily narcissistic, but, but you did say borderline, and maybe it is. But that sort of thinking in general is it is arrogant. It's it's very assumption assumptive. Yeah.

And there are people out there like that. Now when you went through some things as you were younger Mhmm. Do you think any of those things shaped who you became? Everything shaped who I became. Everything.

Mhmm. Can you give us a couple examples? Yes. Like I said, I was abused as a child. Back then, I didn't know that was child abuse.

我心想，好吧。你做錯了什麼。得挨打。對吧？可是，你知道，那算什麼虐待？

Like, getting whipped with, extension cords Okay. Fingers, stuff like that. Okay. That's considered abuse today. But back then, you know, that was like the norm.

所以，你知道，我把這個遺傳了下去。嗯。我也這樣傳給了我的孩子。嗯。你知道，青少年媽媽，這絕對是一代人的事情，因為我的一個女兒，我有兩個女兒。

One of my daughters, she got pregnant at a early age too. One 14, you know, but, you know, it was still before she, you know, was ready. And then, our relationships, period. You know, the way my mom relationship our relationship is, that trickled over to how my relationship was even though, you know, I grew up. When I became grown, I said, man, I'm not gonna be nothing like my mama.

And I found myself being just like her just by saying it. You know? So a lot of things shaped me. And I had to unlearn all of that after I had my nervous breakdown. I had to create a whole new shanty.

I think that's a key thing you just said. You had to create a whole new shanty. Mhmm. And, there are people listening right now that need to create a whole new whatever their name is. Yeah.

And they might be 50. Even though we're talking about teenagers here, they might be 50. Whatever you don't deal with and, Ashanti, you can agree. I know you can agree with this because you've written basically about this in the book. Mhmm.

如果你不處理這個問題，問題就會來找你麻煩。絕對沒錯。前幾天我跟別人說過這句話。姑娘，別再想這些了。等等。

You know, you have to face you can't sweep stuff under the rug for so long. You know, that hill is gonna get high and high, and you're gonna trip over. You know, you have to deal with your issues no matter how ugly they are. You have to deal with them. Yes.

A %. That's something I'm constantly talking about, on this podcast, how important therapy is, and not just therapy, because therapy is one way of dealing with your issues. It's just how did you deal with your issues. Whether that therapy is in an office or somewhere else, just deal with it, face it, confront it, you know, get over it because until you get over it, you're gonna remain under it. It oh.

And Yes. And that's what you're describing. I wanna ask you this this, different kind of question. Okay. Picture the the 14 year old Shanti.

Mhmm. Before you said you were 14 when you got pregnant. Right? Yes. Okay.

So the 14 year old Shanti before she got pregnant. Mhmm. In order for you I want you to relate to the girls that are listening right now. Describe the 14 year old Shanti before she got pregnant. I started having sex when I was 12.

Okay. So between 12 and 14, I thought I was invisible that, oh, that's not gonna happen to me. You know, I could do this and do this with whoever, and nothing was gonna happen. And lo and behold, when I turned 14 I had just turned 14. And, bam, here come a pregnancy, and I thought my life was over.

I said, oh my god. My mom's gonna kill me. Everybody's gonna kill me. My dad's gonna kill me. It was not easy.

It was not fun. And I always say, you know, the, the teen mom show on MTV, I hated that show because I think it glamorized Yeah. Teen You're not the only one. Yeah. And there is nothing like that.

這和你在電視上看到的完全不一樣。一點也不一樣。而且帶著孩子上學非常困難。嗯。你知道嗎？

And the Shanti that was little girl Shanti, she was looking for love in all the wrong places. Can you say that again? That's what I was trying to get to. Looking for love. I didn't feel loved at home, so I said, okay.

Well, let me get this person to like me. Let me have sex with them. Mhmm. They I was used. I was handed around.

And I did it to myself because I knew right from wrong. I knew I shouldn't have been doing it, but I did it anyway because I was looking for something. And I guarantee you, I did not find it in any of the people that I was having sex with back then. Unless you ain't even been having sex. Right.

But, you know, I treated it as a rite of passage Mhmm. For whatever dumbass reason. And here's the thing. Well, the dumbass reason is what you just said. You were looking for love in all the wrong places.

Yeah. And then So back then, I didn't know that. You you didn't. And there's so many young girls right now, that very age, some of them are older, some of them are grown women, who are doing the same thing for the same reason. Yeah.

And don't recognize it. Yeah. Now for you in order for you to get to the point where you recognize that, was it before was it at the breakdown, or did you realize that beforehand? No. That was at the at the breakdown.

Okay. The breakdown happened for a reason, and I'm glad it did. Because it allowed me to look within myself. I did not love myself, and I didn't know I didn't love myself. But having that breakdown showed me, Shonta, you didn't love yourself back then.

你，我一點自尊心都沒有。我的自尊心大概是負20。我一點也不在意自己。而你真是太漂亮了。我敢肯定，在我青春期的時候，你是周圍最火辣、最性感的。

所以我相信你要找到對這些東西完全有興趣的男人應該不難。但即使你長得這麼漂亮，也填不滿你試圖用雞雞填補的空虛。差不多。真的。對吧？

It didn't fulfill that because it it it never will. You could try to fill it with young ladies out there, listen, you could fill it with dick. You could fill it with drugs. You could fill it with alcohol. Yeah.

You could fill it with whatever you wanna name it. Yep. It's still not going to fit. No. It's temporary.

That's not real. And it's important that we love ourselves. Yes. I'm so glad that you that you were just honest about that because I think there are so so I know there's so so so many young women out there who are miniature Shontis and they just don't realize it. They are where you were.

對於那些和你們處境相同的小女孩們，你想說什麼呢？讓我換個說法。這和我之前想問的方式不一樣。現在就和14歲的Shanti談談。 14歲的Shanti，我必須告訴她，她是被愛的。

她很聰明，很漂亮。只要你下定決心，就能做任何事。我一直都是房間裡最聰明的人。一直都是。

And people didn't like me for that. I believe. So I used to I used to dumb myself down back then so I could fit in. But now I'm telling Shanti 14 year old Shanti, you were made to stand out. Right.

You're not supposed to fit in with these people. Amen. Yes. And love yourself. Honor yourself.

尊重自己。因為我當時確實不尊重自己。我的書裡真的有一封寫給14歲自己的信。哦，不錯。是的。

So people can get your book to read that. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Mhmm. What do you say to the other other current shanties who might be 14, 15, 16, whatever age?

And when you tell them, you are loved, and their response is, yeah. Right. By who? My mama don't care about me. My stepfather's an asshole, or she's got a different, guy in the house.

沒人關心我。他們都說我有多蠢。你跟那女孩說什麼？魔鬼是個騙子。你是被愛著的。

You are smart. You are important. You are beautiful. You are worthy. And it starts from within.

即使年紀輕輕，你也要知道你愛別人，你也被別人愛。愛自己。我該如何找到這份愛？對著鏡子，對著鏡子，和自己對話。

Talk to yourself how you want to be talked to. And then you teach other people how to talk to you and treat you. Thank you. It starts with you because people can read you. People can read you from a mile away.

Mhmm. If they see gullible, young, dumb, they're gonna treat you that way. So you have to stand up, shoulders, back, head high, and respect yourself. But how do I respect myself? Say no to these little boys who wanna get in your pants.

Say no, because that's all they want. All they want is the panties, and then they're gonna go talk about you. I promise you. Oh, that's a % true. They're gonna go and talk about you, and then they friends gonna come wanna try to hit.

Mhmm. Because you let him hit the homeboy hit. No. Don't don't let yourself get passed around like that. Respect your body.

And the thing is is what a lot of a lot of people don't realize is once you do that, every single encounter makes you feel worse and worse Oh my gosh. About yourself. And even though you're you're not necessarily a bad person or any of that stuff, but it doesn't matter. It becomes your reality inside your head. Yeah.

It does. You believe that about yourself, and and you believe that all your worth is some pussy. No. And that is not that's a bonus. But that is not that doesn't define your worth.

並非如此。你過去發生的事並不能定義你這個人。你能再說一次嗎？你過去發生的事並不能定義你這個人。並非如此。

除非你允許，否則它不會。除非你允許。除非你允許。我無法忍受。當人們不斷地提起那些努力上進的人的過去時，我真的會很生氣。

How am I gonna go with this book? Like, you know, for example, someone who was an alcoholic and they're really trying hard to, you know, not be an alcoholic anymore. They're trying to get over their addiction and not allow it to be the super weakness it once was. Now, to a certain degree, it's always gonna be there, but, you know, they're trying to get over it and move on and be a sober person for the rest of their life. Right.

I applaud that. It's beautiful. I support you. The last thing I'm gonna do is to savor, remember that time, or you're always gonna be a drunk, or you you did this, you did that. I cannot stand people who do that.

I wanna punch them in the face. Now, mind you, I don't because the cops told me that I can't keep my ass. But, no, I haven't punched anybody in the face. No, but really, I'm I'm not actually violent. But, I I really feel like punching them in the face when they do that because it does it does hold people back.

所以，如果你在某方面已經有點軟弱，無論是酒癮、毒癮、性癮，還是謊言癮。無論你過去遇到什麼問題，你都在努力克服它，你最不需要的就是有人突然出現在你面前，提醒你曾經做過的所有壞事。如果你這樣對別人，我真想一腳踢到你的臉上。我只是說說而已。你需要我一腳踢到你的臉上。

我不會真的這麼做。我只是說這就是我想要的。因為太傷人了。是的。不過，那個人需要做的是，當你離開，踏上療傷之旅時，你會失去很多人。

Yes. Yes. Family included. Mhmm. You are gonna lose a lot of people because they like that old you that they can manipulate and, you know, talk about, and you just do whatever they say.

你會失去所有這些人，因為他們不會喜歡這樣，因為他們不會成長。他們不會改變。他們不會痊癒。是的。總是會有人試圖壓制你，但你必須夠堅強，不讓這種事情發生。

It's a choice. Yeah. It is. It might be a hard choice sometimes. But It is very hard.

A choice. Very hard. But you have to make a choice and always choose you. Always choose you. I love what you said about looking in the mirror and starting to talk to yourself the way you want to be talked to.

我可以告訴你們，各位觀眾，如果你選擇這麼做，它確實有效。一開始你會覺得怪怪的，有點傻傻的。就像，你覺得自己很蠢，但過一段時間你就不會覺得蠢了，因為你會開始相信那些不斷在你的面前說的話。我們所有人都是這樣。如果有人不斷告訴你你很棒，你很棒，你很棒，你就會真的開始相信自己很棒。

如果有人不斷告訴你，你一無是處，你就會開始變得像以前一樣，因為你相信那些我們一遍又一遍被告知的事情。這只是人之常情。所以你得開始好好跟自己說話了。是的，是的。

我很喜歡你給的建議。 Shanti，請告訴我們你還提供哪些服務，以及人們如何找到你？我提供心理輔導和指導服務。我提供一對一和小組輔導。我創建了一套針對不同主題的指導性日記。

所以，無論你想探討什麼話題，自愛、自尊、自我意識，或是卸下你身上的包袱，我都有相應的日記。這些日記內容具體，包含具體的提示，方便你專注於自己遇到的任何問題。我的網站是shantirefuge.com，你可以在所有社群媒體上找到我，TikTok、Facebook、Instagram、YouTube。我是Shanti Refuge Jerks。

好的。 Shanti 的訊息會在劇集簡介裡，你可以點擊那裡的連結直接進入她的網站。 Shanti，今天我還想跟你聊 900 多個話題。說說看吧，夥計。其實，我們聊天的時候我就在想這個。

I I probably will. I, I thank you for coming on and, I've just enjoyed speaking with you and I really hope that there's at least one young girl out there who can identify with you. That heard this and is able to make some changes. She will. It all starts in her mind.

沒錯。謝謝。謝謝。現在來轉換一下思路。今天我想以問題的形式，留給大家兩個想法。

第一，你現在在播種什麼？我想讓你想想，你想收穫什麼？你希望在往後的人生中收穫什麼？你想顯化什麼？

What things do you want to see grow? What do you wanna see happen? And then I want you to take a look at those things versus what are you sowing right now? Are you planting the seeds that are going to get you that crap, or are you planting apple seeds expecting expecting to get grapes? I want you to think about that.

另一個想法是，你還有什麼問題沒有處理？因為我向你保證，這些問題已經在困擾你了。她曾經精神崩潰。這迫使她面對自己的問題，最後處理了累積了一輩子的積怨。你們中的許多人，無論年齡大小，都在聽著，你們把積攢了一輩子的東西埋藏在地下，希望它們會自然消失。

It's never gone away. It's affecting how you act, behave, and think now. It's affecting your relationships. It's affecting your job. It's affecting every part of you.

你需要應付什麼？感謝收聽「思維轉變力量」播客。請按讚並訂閱我的YouTube頻道「思維轉變者」。如果您有任何評論、主題建議，或想做客本節目，請造訪fatimabay.com/podcast。記住，轉變思維的力量是無窮的。

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