Welcome to Mindshift Power Podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. And welcome, everyone. We have today with us Donna c Moss. You've heard her before.

她今天以不同的身分來到這裡。我們還有她的女兒艾莉爾·莫斯。所以我們討論的是不同世代的話題。艾莉爾23歲，我50歲，唐娜62歲。我們三個人都來自美國東北部，而且我們三個人都來自不同的世代。

So I'm gonna do something a little different today. I'm gonna break down what the generation what the generations are called and their age ranges because people are always confused about this. So I'm just gonna clarify it from the beginning. So the baby boomers were born between 1946 and '64. They are 60 to 78 right now, so that would be Donna.

X世代出生於1965年至1980年之間。他們現在大概44歲到59歲之間。這就是X世代。我也是。千禧世代出生於1981年至1996年之間。

They are currently 28 to 43 years old. By the way, this recording is November of twenty twenty four. So if you listen to this later, those ages will change. Gen z, generation z, were born between 1997 and 02/2012, currently between the ages of 12 and 27, which is all the teenagers and young adults. And generation alpha, those are the babies right now.

They are 11 years and younger. They're born between 02/2013 and now. So now that we have, broken that down, Donna, why don't you tell me what you said to me that prompted this this conversation here for this episode? If I remember correctly, I think I was telling you that Ariel told me that for the first time, her generation came together for something happy and momentous was the full, solar eclipse that happened earlier this year. Mhmm.

她告訴我，這是她人生中第一次為了正面的事情走到一起。她出生於2009/11年代，剛從大學畢業，期間經歷了新冠疫情和許多困難。所以，聽到他們為了某件事走到一起，我感到很高興。那麼，Ariel，你能用你自己的話稍微解釋一下，你剛才說的是什麼嗎？好的。

Like my mom said, I was born right into 09/11. So I think my specifically, my year in my generation was kind of used to having tragedy happen, unfortunately. And, I think we're known for being pretty resilient. And so I think with resilience, it means that there was at some point hardship. And so this eclipse, just kinda felt like one thing that we were all a part of that had no, you know, good or bad to it, and it was just kind of like a community experience.

是的，每個人都非常興奮，這可以說是第一次，這麼多人感覺自己為了一件不那麼可怕的事情走到了一起。艾麗爾，我覺得這一點很有趣。大多數世代，包括我這一代、你媽媽那一代，以及任何年紀稍長的人，我們都不會去想，這就是我們所知的一切。悲劇對你們這一代來說是常態，也是我們所知的一切。而我們，悲劇發生在人生的後期，所以我們的視角不同。

And I think it's important. I also wanna mention, you heard the age difference between, Ariel and her mother. Her mother, Donna had Ariel at 40, so she there's a bigger age gap. Most people around Ariel's age, their parents are about my age, around 50. So well, roughly.

So when I talk about the differences between generations, I think it's important to to note that most of the people Ariel's age, their parents, the people talking to them about whatever, are my age, and then their grandparents are more more likely anyway, Donna's age. So, but back to what you're saying. I think it's important that for all of us to really understand that that is not a minor detail, the fact that you grew up just thinking of tragedy as normal. Am am I saying that correctly? Yeah.

I think so. So I think that that makes a difference. Don't you, Donna? If if I'm asking Donna because Donna's also a therapist, so she gets into people's heads a lot. Very psychological.

所以這個問題對她來說非常恰當。在悲劇司空見慣的環境中長大，這會對你的大腦產生影響嗎？首先，每一代人都會說他們有自己的創傷。對吧？我的意思是，我們是嬰兒潮世代，這意味著我出生於二戰時期。

嗯。所以不能每個人都這麼說。我認為每一代人都有自己的挑戰，這沒關係。但正如Ariel所說，我們需要更好地溝通我們的出發點。沒錯。我同意。

在我這一代，你知道，我是在八零年代長大的。所以和我同年紀的人都記得《早餐俱樂部》。我最喜歡的電影是《我要讓你變傻》（I'm gonna Get You Sucka），還有，艾迪墨菲的電影是什麼？ 《來到美國》。我記得所有這些。

You know? I was a a teenager and a kid during some of that stuff. So for my generation, we didn't have wars like you did. Right, John? You had well, no.

That's not true. We did have, Vietnam. You had Vietnam. We had Afghanistan. Yeah.

In what was it? Ninety two of forgive me. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm we're we're calling the I'm I think I'm naming the war.

不，對不起。是伊拉克，不是阿富汗。哦，是伊拉克。

But, do you remember any Ariel, as your age, do you think of war as something that has happened in your lifetime? Most of my life, I would say no. More recently, it's changed a bit. But I think growing up, I remember feeling like, you know, we would learn about it in school, and it sounded so big and, like, it was the biggest thing going on in those times. And I think that's partly the way we learn about it, partly because there was more known about what was going on.

And I always remember feeling like I I wouldn't even know if there was a war going on because nobody talks about it. Here's why I find that I'm sorry. Go ahead. No. That that's it.

我覺得這個回答很有意思的原因如下。你們這一代經歷過不少戰爭，都是一些大戰，但這些戰爭並沒有被視為人生的重要組成部分。我認為這對你們這一代來說很特別，因為我覺得這不僅僅是你們。我認為年輕一代並不這麼認為。我們來談談我認為這種看法正確的一個原因：科技。科技總是在不斷發展。

It's always gonna be different generation to generation. That's always gonna be true. However, technology for my generation didn't really it wasn't like, you know, social media, your phones, being digitally attached to everything. That wasn't a major part of our lives growing up. We my generation, we were in our twenties before that really hit the fans.

You know, around the time of the iPhone is what most experts say is when the digital era really began to take a hold of our culture. So for you, how do you view digital stuff, like, everything technology wise? Ariel, I'm sorry. You know, I think there's good and bad. I think growing up, there were times that if I didn't have my phone, maybe, you know, middle school drama wouldn't have been so bad.

And Mhmm. There was definitely a lot of hiding behind screens. As I got older, I think I I started to appreciate it a bit more Okay. In the in the way of, like you know, you can connect with people. I don't live near most of my childhood friends anymore, and so it's you know, there's a connecting aspect to it as we know.

And then I think a big thing with that was during COVID, the way people responded to having technology. And I always said that I kind of appreciated it because it would give me some, like, kind of inspiration. I would scroll for a little while and see someone cooking something or see someone making, you know, arts and crafts or whatever it was. And I felt like that kind of just was inspired. Like, not it would give me something to do.

It would kinda get me motivated, which isn't always true. But So the digital connections you saw as good. But for you, do you feel like you've been digitally connected your entire life? Yeah. I think, you know, most of my life that I can remember, you know, my parents were always and, like, cameras were so new, and so my parents were always taking pictures and videos when we were kids, which, you know, now I'm grateful for because it's fun to see those.

But so I think it kinda started with that. And then when I was in about, like, middle school, I got a phone and, eventually, an iPhone and, you know, just kinda went from there. I I don't really, yeah, I've always I feel like I've always had one. Okay. And, Donna, when did you become digitally connected?

Because, obviously, your generation didn't grow up with everything being digitally connected to you. But Right. So like I was saying, earlier, I grew up in a joyful, free range time. Where after school, we usually I usually had sports, and then we just roamed around and around free on our bicycles until the sun went down and our parents called us in for dinner. So there was something incredibly carefree about that, and I think my friends and I agree it was there's something beautiful about it.

我們之間聯繫非常緊密，部分原因是沒有人關注我們。你知道嗎？這個世界充滿信任。好消息是，我是一個科技的早期使用者，這也是我能夠與我接受治療的青少年保持同步的原因之一，因為手機幫助我變得更有條理，而這正是我需要支持的一件大事。所以我聽到的是，你已經適應了……是的。

新技術，新技術。你不會只是說「我不需要」。年輕人，你們真的花時間去適應，找到了對你們有用的方法。是啊。嗯，我喜歡它。

你知道嗎？因為如果你給我一張紙，我就會把它弄丟。但有了電腦，我可以在工作環境中更好地發展。對我們這一代來說，因為我們介於你們之間，我們是在科技不斷湧現的背景下長大的。所以我們有了電腦，這在我年輕的時候是一件非常重要的事情，因為IBM才剛興起，它們還沒有進入千家萬戶。

我記得我上大學的時候，那時候還是老式的美國線上（AOL）網路時代。艾瑞爾，你當時可能還不知道，因為那時你還沒出生。網路剛出現的時候，我們用的還是撥接上網，當時可是個大事。雖然不是每個人都能用上，但那時網路並不普及。所以我算是介於兩者之間的一代人，我適應了互聯網，因為我還年輕，還算習慣。唐娜，你們那一代人，很多人對科技還不太熟悉。現在我認識很多人已經很熟悉了。

I know. Thank god I am, but a lot are not. And it was funny because my father called himself a media expert, and he couldn't click on a link even. He was a book publisher. Oh, wow.

But if you sent them a link, he was like, what is this? Well, he probably was a media expert for his time. Yeah. You know, for real. They they did things the old fashioned way and still read newspapers and and and all that stuff.

你必須把這麼大的手稿用紅色的信封郵寄到全國各地。是的。你說得對。他們必須這麼做。是的。這差別很大。

Mhmm. But I think that, the digital aspect is a big deal. Now you were telling me, Ariel, I want you to repeat to the audience some of the things you were telling me earlier about, what you had to say about, you know, the digital era and and just tell them what you were saying earlier. You know, I think, like I was saying, it can, like, separate and bring together, but I think, you know, there's there's with parents and, like, different generations trying to understand, it I think it's really important to, like, put in that effort to at least be willing to try and, like, understand and learn and adapt like we've been talking about. And I think a lot of parents, I think, can be a little bit scared from the technology because if you don't understand it, I mean, you don't know what is going on and where you're sending things, and it can be a little bit scary.

我認為，願意向更了解這一點的一代學習很重要。還有，要相信年輕的孩子，即使他們年紀較小，我們對它也有不同的理解。所以，我想談談另一個相關的話題。說到約會，說到發送色情圖片，我要實話實說，對於那些還沒有意識到這一點的成年人來說，青少年之間互相發送自己身體部位的照片，通過短信成為小色情明星，是非常普遍、非常普通的行為。這在當今這一代人中非常普遍。

Tell me what you were saying about that earlier, Ariel. I mean, in my experience, it was, like you were saying, very common. Mostly in high school, I think, middle school to high school when people are still exploring and kind of, like, can hide behind the screen. And, you know, a big part of that is Snapchat where everything is temporary. So it seems like you can't save things, and that seems safe safer.

雖然我們現在知道有辦法保存東西，例如複製東西。但是，隨著我長大，我覺得這種做法越來越少了。我記得在學校的時候，老師和一些老一輩的人總是試圖嚇唬我們，讓我們不敢這麼做。他們用的方式讓我們不敢當真。例如，他們會解釋說，如果你發一張照片，它就會發給某個你不認識的陌生人。我覺得那個年紀的人根本不在乎這些。

Like, that wasn't really the part of it that was so problematic, although maybe true. But I think it was more problematic that, you know, your peers would find out or people would talk about it or people would see copies of pictures. And I think that just created, like, a big you know, it fed into that kind of stigma of that not being okay, and people would feel really insecure. And I think, you know, I think a lot of that's changing as, like, sex work has become more acceptable and there's less judgment towards it all. But as a kid, you know, you need to know the risks, and I don't think the parents really fully understood how to portray that to us.

Okay. That's an honest answer. I think that that is still somewhat true, actually. I think a lot of people in in your generation still don't get how how damaging it is to do that stuff. And it because it's so common, and it's like, if you try to do something later, it'll matter.

We see it all the time when we look at older adults right now, and they don't think about the fact that you're gonna be an older adult one day, and you're gonna wanna not have things pulled out on you. Right. You know But now if you privatize it, you can make a lot of money. Well, that that is true. So we have a generation that thinks that, you know, showing all your body parts and doing stuff on screen is is good and okay.

I know for my generation, it still wasn't. And I'm assuming, Donna, that you are gonna say the same thing. Well, yeah. I mean, I I mean, we don't understand it at all, but I understand it at all, but I can see the result of of it. I mean, I had a one of my earliest clients was hospitalized because her nude went around the school.

她當時15歲。她因為羞辱而住院，如果這是診斷的話，那她確實犯了。是的。你知道，只是因為羞辱。但這並不意味著她會留下終生的傷疤。

但和我聊過的許多孩子都經歷過自尊心受到打擊的經歷，這並不是他們的錯，只是因為他們在錯誤的事情上得到了太多的回饋和關注。是的。我不知道。螢幕另一邊常常有人在拍照，這也是他們的錯。我認為這不完全是，你知道，大多數情況下，就像你信任某人，你認為你可以發送一些私密的東西，你在探索這種親密的境界，但通常是另一個人把事情搞砸了，背叛了他們的信任。你知道，你必須小心，但我認為這在人際關係中造成了許多信任問題。

And I think I see that now, you know, for a lot of different reasons. But you see it at even at my age, you know, boys are really hard to trust. And usually, it's, you know, usually, it's boys, but you never know. Well, yeah, that's an honest answer. And and I know that, I know that you're speaking for a lot of people when you say that, Ariel.

It's it's definitely not just you. Ariel, as someone who is part of that younger generation, what is it that you would like to say to the older generations, your your mother's generation and mine, the older people? What do you have to say to us? You know, I think, like I kinda said before, it's really important for us to learn from you, but also for the older generation to be willing to see things from a new perspective and, like, kind of the accepting of the fact that things are different and that we, you know, grow up in a different world. And just the willingness to understand that and to even if you can't fully understand it, understanding that it is different whether you can kinda get on board or not.

Why is it different? Why should we listen to you? I think we have a different kind of level of connectedness, like, whether maybe it was better or worse to not have a phone and nobody know where you are. There is some, like, bliss to that. But Mhmm.

我認為，作為一個整體的世代群體，我們比其他任何一代都更緊密地聯繫在一起。真的嗎？為什麼？為什麼？為什麼這麼認為？我的意思是，我認為社群媒體在其中發揮了重要作用，你知道，如果發生了什麼事，我們都可以在網路上討論。而且，很多人開始回歸討論、敞開心胸、學習新事物的平台。

And so I think we kinda get a lot of the same information from each other, and it's kind of this, like, fluid exchange of experience and information and all this stuff that, you know, I don't think you could have before having the level of social media that we have now. And, yes, sometimes it's problematic, and that's all you know, we have to have a balance, but I think that it brings us together in a lot of ways. And like I was saying with COVID, like, I think that was a big part of it for me is that it felt like I'm feeling all these crazy things about what's going on in the world, and now I know that all these other millions of people my age are also feeling that way. I think you made a very interesting statement there that you feel like your generation is more close close knit than any of us, because of the fact that you can talk about things online, whereas we could only talk about talk about things on the phone or when we saw each other physically somewhere. Right, Donna?

絕對沒錯。而且，是的，你說得對。我之前還沒怎麼想過這個問題，所以你稍微改變了我的想法。你們能夠溝通，尤其是透過那種方式，而我們卻不能。而且我認為你們可以，如果我錯了，你可以糾正我，Ariel。

I think that you guys are much more open to talking about issues than our generations were because we were always taught to suppress things and pretend. I also think that you guys are taught to pretend just in a different way. Yeah. I definitely agree. And now it's like, you know, your parents and your family aren't the only people you have to talk to if you have, like, about growing up and about life.

Yeah. Yeah. You have kind of more of a community to reach out to. How do you feel about, our youth having respect for their elders? Having respect for elders?

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I think respect both ways is important. I think You know, I think there was like, my mom was saying something wonderful about not knowing where anybody is and just being kind of in that moment. I think that a lot of us look for that and try to connect to that and, you know, disconnect to reconnect is saying that I've always known.

不。我只是覺得我們雙方都有需要學習的地方。我同意。我覺得你剛才說的才是關鍵。我還是同意。

You guys are able to to, communicate and connect in a way that our generations really couldn't on not on that level anyway. We could connect with individuals. There's some of us that did, but as a generation, no. But I also think that you you brought a good point about the the eclipse. That was the first time that your generation was doing something together with, like, together together with other generations too, and that was abnormal for your generation.

對我或你母親那一代人來說，這並非不正常。我認為，對於我們這些年紀較大、試圖理解的人來說，這是一個值得我們思考、檢視的差異。我只想重申Arielle的觀點：身為成年人，我們真的需要花時間認真傾聽年輕一代的心聲，而不是對他們說教。我一直在強調這一點。你知道，如果你真的花時間傾聽，你真的會受益匪淺。

Now that where Donna is different than her peers is the fact that she is a therapist and specifically works with young adults and teenagers. So she already understands a lot of these things, but she understands it because she's made a point to try and understand. Right, Donna? Absolutely. That's correct.

是的。你想對你們這一代說點什麼嗎？對。嗯，你提到那個孩子的時候，我在想，他的名字好像是帕克蘭槍擊案裡的大衛霍格。他現在差不多成年了，但他當時在場，越來越關注政治了。

我認為孩子們不明白的是，現在一切都與政治有關。如果你想生孩子，如果你想投票，你必須擁有自由投票的資格，如果你想住在紅州或藍州，你必須擁有投票的資格。一切都跟政治有關，所以真的沒辦法迴避。你必須參與其中。否則，我們都結束了。

I kind of agree. I I do think that that is a valid point. Everything is political now. Where you go ahead, Muriel. I disagree.

好的。為什麼？我的意思是，我認為政治很重要，而且我認為，你知道，你必須意識到你的決定背後發生了什麼事。但我認為那種把一切都與政治掛鉤的心態很累人。而且，你知道，我認為你必須能夠稍微抽離一下，享受生活中簡單的事物，而不是把一切重新歸結為政治。

So when you say, well, this is what I'm hearing, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. What I'm hearing you say is that everything doesn't need to be political. And what Donna's saying is that everything has become political, which to me are two different statements. I am kind of in between both of you, actually, not just generationally, but even on the topic. I do think that, I understand why Donna would say everything is political now because she grew up at a time where everything wasn't turned into something political.

And right now, everything is turned just about everything, is turned into something political. But I also see where you're coming from, Ariel, in that we do need to care about politics, and we do need to make statements about things and not just sit by and accept everything. And and am am I correct? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And I think politics right now specifically are very much on this topic of, like, ages because Mhmm. You know, most of the candidates are not don't have the understanding that a lot of the young voters do, and I think that's frustrating for a lot of people. It's like a huge gap in generation between who we're voting for and who we are. I that makes sense to me.

That that statement makes sense to me. I wanna dive a little further a little deeper into something what you just said as well. You said it is exhausting to hear that, and I know that that sentiment is not just coming from Ariel. She represents probably most people in her generation with that frustration. The frustration of hearing the older adults saying, oh, everything's political now, but saying it in a way that is brushing off, brushing off issues.

Like, oh, you're just being political instead of actually hearing what the issue is about. Am I correct, Ariel? Yeah. Is that where the first question is coming from? Yeah.

I think it's quick to to turn things to politics before discussing it on its own. Okay. That's what I thought. And I understand where you're coming from with that, and that does make sense to me, where because in the in the reason I'm saying this is because it's not just Donna who's gonna say that. Just most people in her generation are gonna say that because of the fact when they grew up, everything wasn't turned into something major.

Some things probably should have been that weren't. And, you know We actually just have this conversation, my mom and I. Oh, you did I didn't know that. But But, Just saying yeah. Go ahead.

I I I I think that I think I I am understanding why, and this isn't just Donna, why people of her generation make statements like that. And I see where they're coming from, but I also see where you're coming from with the frustration of hearing that over and over again from people that are including that with being dismissive. Mhmm. I don't think that what she's saying is invalid. I think what she's saying is very valid because she grew up with a different experience.

But I also think that your your generation's feeling about stop dismissing everything we're saying is also valid because and and, again, I think that comes from not understanding each other. And the fact that when your generation hear statements like that from her generation, you guys do need to understand that they they grew up differently. They didn't grow up with everything being turned into something because we didn't have social media to blow it up. Mhmm. Right.

But That was the point I made to my mom was Oh, okay. Like, we you know, I've been hearing a lot of people telling us, oh, this is the most important election ever. And I said to my parents, I think I've heard that my whole life. Every election my entire life has been the most important election at that time. That's true.

And it's like crying wolf. You get tired of hearing it. Right. And we also had a lot more benefits right after we wanted to end the Vietnam War. I was still too young to understand that.

But after that, there were many years of of, sort of quiet until then we had that guess, like, where you had to line up for odd even on your license plate to get gasoline. Do you remember that? I wasn't there. That was, like, the biggest that was, like, the biggest thing that happened to us. It was terrible, but it was I think I heard about it, though.

嗯哼。我好像聽過。不過謝天謝地，也有很多很長的沉寂期。這很有意思。我覺得年輕一輩根本沒經歷過這種事。

不。我不知道安靜是什麼感覺。嗯。不過話說回來，因為現在有數位連接，而且我正在跟觀眾講話。我真的希望你們能聽到這裡說的話，然後再進行一些深入的思考。

This episode isn't about right or wrong, about portraying anything. It's just to plant some thought seeds because I think many of you need to understand each other, and you're not trying to. And I just want you to hear from a generation that's not your own. So no matter how old you are, you're hearing from a generation that's not your own between one of us. And I think it's important that we try to understand each other, at least make an effort at understanding each other.

It's something that all three of us totally agree on. You know, it it's important to listen to others and try to understand their experience even if you don't understand it. But the effort at understanding means that if you're making an effort to understand me, I'm probably more likely to listen to you. I'm also really worried and anxious about my for my kids. Like, what if, God forbid, they need an abortion or they Mhmm.

他們陷入槍枝暴力的交火中，或者說，現在家長們非常恐懼。你接下來想說什麼，阿里爾？我本來想補充你剛才說的話。是的。我覺得，補充一下，就像是把仇恨從這一切中去除一樣。

Like, I feel like I try really hard to remove, like, judgment and anger when talking about politics. Like, I think you we all need to practice disagreeing and not hating each other for it. Girl. Can you see that? Understand, and you don't have to totally agree, but that doesn't mean we have to, like, totally hate each other and not listen to each other at all because then no one's gonna learn anything.

I completely agree, like, a %. A amen. Can you teach that to some of these older adults who are supposed to be freaking adult, who act like 10 year olds when you disagree with them? I I it's just it's very frustrating. And and the crazy thing is I hear more to me, that's an adult mindset.

That is a grown up mature not adult, more so mature mindset is to think that way. I hear more of statements like that coming from your generation than mine or older. Mhmm. And I think that's a large problem too. And but I completely agree, and I think you're totally right about that.

我們三個人都同意這一點。你知道，我們只是認為，意見不合沒關係。但暴力行為是不對的。我認為這才是應該劃清界線的地方，因為界線是必須的。如果分歧演變成暴力，對我來說就是另一回事了，這是一個不同的主題。

But just to to agree disagree that I I wanna vote I I believe in, when it comes to money, what republicans believe. Well, I believe when it comes to social stuff, what the, you know, the democrats believe. Okay. We can have those conversations, but it doesn't mean I need to kill you. It doesn't mean I need to point you in the face or try to Or even dismiss you.

是的。沒錯。甚至在訴諸暴力之前。或剝奪你的權利。剝奪你的權利。

But if someone says, oh, I don't agree. I don't wanna have that conversation. Uh-huh. I think that's where the problem starts. It's like you should be okay with listening to something that's not your opinion and being a little bit outside your country's mouth.

But I wanna add, it doesn't mean you need to have the same conversation over and over again. Once you've had that conversation with one you know, two or three times with the same mindset, then you you've had it. But you're right. You need to at least make that effort, and a lot of people, they don't. They're just stuck in their ways.

And I I do find that your younger generation, Ariel, seems to be a lot more understanding of that. But I also think that you guys were taught you you were taught different values than we were, and you guys don't even see it. The older generation sees it the most because they've been around longest, obviously. But, the values that we've all been taught, they are all different. And I'm speaking in general terms, of course, because our own household individual, you know, differences are play into that too, but I'm talking about as a whole culture.

我們三代人所受的教育截然不同。我總是喜歡這樣說。唐娜那一代，他們在地球上長大。他們在草地上玩耍。他們是地球的一部分。

Your generation is growing up on Mars. This other generation is growing up in a whole another galaxy. They're not even in our galaxy. Like, that's just dramatically how different, we're being raised as cultures, and I think all the more reason why we need to take the time to listen to one another. So if you're listening and you're young, take the time to listen to your grandma, listen to your mom or your dad or whoever who's a different generation to see how things work for them.

如果你年紀大了，例如40歲，我想說，花點時間聽聽23歲或更年輕的人的意見。他們可能和你的想法很不一樣，因為他們的成長經驗不同。但重要的是，你真的要努力傾聽。唐娜，我可以告訴你，你可以就這個問題做出回應。你的病人、你的客戶聽你說話的原因之一，不僅是因為你是治療師，而是因為你真的先傾聽了他們。是的。

I say I think that's a % right. It it does comfort you have to have an openness to begin these conversations and a willingness to tolerate some discomfort. Believe me. I don't like to argue. I don't get anything out of it.

Mhmm. But once in a while, I can get uncomfortable or get passionate without, you know, any interference from extremes. That's why she that's why she married a lawyer. I'm surrounded by lawyers. Oh, yeah.

I don't enjoy it. I I really don't. But it's But it's good practice. But it's good to have some confidence. Absolutely.

嗯，我非常喜歡這次談話。還有很多其他主題我今天沒有深入探討，因為時間太長了。不過，我真的很高興和你們兩位聊天，非常感謝你們坦誠地接受這次談話。我希望各位聽眾能從中有所收穫。謝謝你，法蒂瑪。是的。

謝謝。現在輪到我們轉換一下思路了。今天我希望大家記得一個重要的原則，就是傾聽。你們在這裡聽到了很多。我相信你們同意一些觀點，也反對一些觀點，沒關係。

The main thing is that you heard something different than what you're used to or different than your own mindset. I wanna emphasize how important it is to listen to people who have a different perspective than us. If you do this, it will make you more of a balanced person. Do you only listen to people who agree with you? I promise you, if you do, you have a very imbalanced mind and imbalanced thinking.

I just want you to think about how much do you actually listen to people who have a different perspective from you? Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast. Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking.

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