Welcome to Mindshift Power podcast, a show for teenagers and the adults who work with them, where we have raw and honest conversations. I'm your host, Fatima Bey, the mind shifter. Hello and welcome. Today, we have with us Jessica Rosler. She is a woman that lives in Schenectady, New York.

And this episode is called damaged, because we're gonna she works. She's gonna talk about struggling through trauma as a teen, and ending up as an an accomplished adult. And some people think that they are damaged because they are like she was. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit. So, Jessica, tell us how you grew up and and what your teens were like for you.

Well, I grew up in what I like to call a very dysfunctional family. And in that, I mean, we weren't your your typical normal, like, happy go lucky family. We were, you know, very, you know, everybody did what they wanted kind of thing. My parents constantly fought and and till this day, they still do. And, you know, all of us kids growing up each had our issues as well with school and and life.

你知道，我父母家境並不富裕，我們家境也是。我們算是中下階層。我們能算得上中下階層嗎？你知道，我爸媽都是在兼職，在我青少年時期，甚至成年後的大部分時間裡，他們都在做兼職。他們沒時間照顧我們很多人。

So when one of us had an accomplishment that we had wanted to tell them about, it was overshadowed by another sibling having an issue. So, you know, none of that was taken into account. And, you know, in return for me, I felt like they didn't care. So, you know, I would do what I wanted, just like my siblings. They would do what they wanted.

They would go out, hang out with friends till they wanted. And, you know, my my parents were, you know, they they tried to discipline, but it was more or less like, my dad, he would, you know, he would be like this this burly, like, oh, you know, you have to come home at a specific time and and, you know, do this and that. And but he he wouldn't stick to it. And my mom was definitely not the disciplinarian in the family. You know?

She was more, oh, well, you should let them do what they want. And it's like, you know, to me, it was just that's what I grew up with. So that's what I was used to. And, you know, it was very much like that in my teen years as well where it was just like, alright. Well, if you don't care what I do, I'm just gonna do this, this, this, and this.

And, you know, I went out and and hung out with friends. And, when I wasn't hanging out with friends, I was told, oh, well, you gotta watch your siblings because, you know, your mother's working tonight. And my mom had to pick up two jobs just to make ends meet with, you know, eight kids. And, you know, we barely had enough money for bills. And my mother would put away so much to pay the bills.

所以，你知道，有時候事情要嘛是吃飯，要嘛是付帳。所以，你知道，她選擇讓我們這些孩子吃飯，而不是付帳。所以有時候我們會沒電。有時候我們會過不了聖誕節。你知道，有時候我們得向祖父母借錢。

In terms of cars, too, as well. My grandmother would give us her cars. We had hand me down clothes. So it was it was a very much, you know, roller coaster of a ride in my family, in that sense. And, it was just, you know, everybody was all over the place.

我十幾歲的時候的生活和現在差不多。你知道，小學生活也是一樣。我父母總是吵架。我從小學開始就被貼上了「學習障礙」的標籤，而且在我的一生中都是如此。你知道，學校說，嗯，你知道，我們幫不了你女兒什麼忙了。

And so they they stuck me in special education classes. And, you know, at that point, I was too young to have a voice and and to figure out, hey. Look. You know? This is not who I am.

And, you know, I I shouldn't be labeled as such because, you know, I sucked at math. Yeah. Like, people suck at math. You know, that's just that's just it's just, you know, something that, you know, some people aren't good at. And but, you know, otherwise, it was, like I said, very much much the same as as that.

And, you know, throughout school, it was, you know, being put in special education classes after special education classes. And then I got into high school as I started getting to be in my teen years. And that started to start weighing on me some more because it was even tougher in in high school. When I was in high school, they, the special education committee had, tons of meetings on me and about me. And my mom was with me for, like, one or two of those.

但除此之外，就只有我自己了。你知道，我必須找到自己的聲音，我必須弄清楚，你知道，在那個時候什麼對我最好。儘管我表達了對接受特殊教育的擔憂，但我覺得他們，你知道，沒有聽到，因為我，你知道，我還是個青少年。所以我覺得他們根本不在乎我的想法。他們，你知道，他們只是覺得，哦，這只是一個我們可以從中得到錢的人而已。

所以在那種情況下，當我覺得自己沒人聽，或是說沒人看到的時候，我覺得自己很失敗。我覺得沒人在乎我的想法。沒人在乎我說了什麼，因為我還只是個青少年。而你知道，他們是成年人。我應該聽他們的，我應該照他們的意思去做。

So I was kept in this program, and I felt like an utter failure. I felt horrible. I felt lost. I felt defeated. And it, you know, it was an awful thing for me as a teenager to have to deal with, you know, among other things that, you know, teenagers deal with on a daily basis.

And, you know, that was like that throughout my whole high school career. I didn't graduate high school until the age of 19 because I ended up failing kindergarten because of the fact that the teachers again said, well, she doesn't know how to do this. She's not ready. So I just, you know, me being me, I felt like a failure. I felt like, you know, I didn't fit in anywhere.

你知道，我覺得沒人會接受我，沒人會認真對待我。我非常憤怒，非常沮喪，非常受傷。你知道，我不想讀完高中。我真的很想輟學。

Did you have a lot of friends? So I had groups of friends. You know, we had in my high school, there were, you know, your usual jocks and nerds and, so on and so forth. And, you know, I fell in between, like, the the nerds and the outcasts. And, you know, I had a lot of of those types of, friends come in and out of my circle a lot.

And, you know, that helps some. And, you know, I felt like they understood who I was and they listened to me and, you know, took my complaints, my thoughts very seriously. And, you know, at that point in their lives too, some of them were also in special education. So some of them knew the ins and outs of it like I did. And Okay.

你知道，他們中的一些人在生活中也遇到了其他困難，所以接受了特殊教育。但對我來說，我當時去了所謂的資源室，一個助手幫我解答了所有問題。所以這基本上對我沒什麼幫助。是的，它沒有幫助我學到任何東西，也沒有幫助我弄清楚任何事情。

It just made matters worse for me because even the aids would look at me, and they would get frustrated with me. Because if there was something that I didn't understand very quickly, they would sit there and look at me strange and they would just give up and then just give me the answers. Because, you know, for me, it it takes me a little while to understand something. And, you know, sometimes I have to have it repeated multiple times, but I'll get it. It it's not like I won't.

只是我花了點時間才明白。你知道，在我成長的過程中，我覺得自己很蠢。我覺得自己很蠢。我覺得自己是個徹頭徹尾的失敗者。我覺得所有人、一切都在針對我。正因為如此，我為自己接受特殊教育而感到羞愧。

And it was honestly when I look back, it was honestly some of the worst but yet profound impacts on my life that I've experienced. Profound how? Because it has shown that just because I, you know, I thought I was a failure. I thought I couldn't do things that other people in regular classes were doing. You know, I was horrified with myself.

I was ashamed of myself. I was embarrassed. And, you know, looking back, I nowadays, looking back as an adult, I think that that had a profound impact on me in, you know, the sense that I I came a lot farther than I thought I would in in life. And that's what I want us to to really talk about. I know that there are I don't even know.

I don't even know if thousands is enough, maybe millions of young women out there who are just like you, who feel the same way about themselves right now as you felt. They feel stupid. They don't come from the greatest of environments when it comes to family. They feel they're totally unsupported by the people around them. And just how can you feel hopeful in a situation like that?

So I wanna talk a little bit about, you know, where you are now. So what what are you doing now? So right now, I actually work at a local community college, and I actually work with my daughter. So, you know, and I, you know, I actually have my daughter to thank for being, you know, being as as gracious as she is and as understanding as she is. You know, she's actually helped me, to become the person I am today and and shaped me to be a better person.

And, you know, without her her resilience and and her thoughtfulness and and her, you know, dedication to everything that she does and and, you know, she's my cheering section. You know, without her, I think that I would not be the person that I am today. I think if if I hadn't had her, that I would be in a very dark place. I would be very, very distraught. I would be I would be a mess.

And The fact that I can finally say that, you know, just because I've had these, you know, these types of setbacks in my life, you know, it doesn't mean that I'm still that person and it doesn't mean that I can't do the things that I set out to do and the goals that I have. You know, I have all this resilience and I have so many so many dreams, so many goals that I want to attain in my life. And, you know, looking back, you know, I think that without having all of these things that happened to me, without that, I think that, you know, I wouldn't be here in this position. Now you you said you you've you have goals and dreams you're trying to work on and trying to attain. What are some of the goals that you well, first of all yeah.

What are some of the goals that you have already attained? Some of the goals that I have already accomplished, I actually got an associate's degree. So suck it, high school guidance counselor who said that I would never amount to anything. I would never be able to do math or science. You know?

我覺得是哪個白痴跟你說了那句話。是的，我很抱歉。但你到底是什麼白痴？說吧。

She said she literally said to me, in my eleventh yeah, my junior year of high school and then my senior year of high school. She told me every time I went into her office when I was asking her, you know, you know, we went over, like, hey, hey, what do you wanna be when you grow up? You know, all that stuff that high school guidance counselors usually ask. I had said I wanted to be a pediatric nurse or I wanted to do something in astronomy. She literally looked me in the face and said, well, you know, both of those have math involved.

Right? Like, really snotty, like, attitude. And I said, yeah. And she said, and for pediatric nursing, you know, that they don't make a lot of money. Right?

And I'm like, wow. Like, did she just say that? That woman need to be smacked upside the head and gotten out of her job. But anyway. So I needless to say, I left her office defeated and in tears because I thought, alright.

The you know, that's it. I'm never gonna be able to do anything with my life. And, you know, there was a time when I didn't go to college, but I I, you know, I was still in school right now? Right. Yes.

I am still in school right now. I am working on a master's degree. I master's in science degree in biodiversity conservation and policy. And I am just you know, I'm killing some of the goals that I had set for myself, and, you know, I've gone above and beyond even the ones that I thought I could never do. So you went from feeling like nothing, feeling stupid, abnormal, like you couldn't accomplish anything.

All that other stuff was for normal people, not you. Right? Yes. Exactly. About yourself.

Exactly. About myself when I was younger too. So I understand. I really, really understand it. But you went from there to you're working on your masters now.

Now go let's go back to 17 year old Jessica. Would 17 year old Jessica have believed that she would one day be working on a master's degree? Absolutely not. I 17 year old me was very moody, very, you know, very defeated, very down, very, very depressed, because, you know, 17 year old me was like, I'm never gonna be able to do anything. And I would I would be in my room every single night with my lights off, and I would look I would look outside and I would start praying.

I would, you know, I would start praying for the the day and the time that, you know, I would be able to be normal. I would be able to have a normal family, a normal life, a, you know, a normal situation. You know, I would be able to have a diploma out of high school like everybody else. But, you know, I got put in special education. And the IEP diploma that I had basically said, no.

You have to stay in this program till you're 19 years old. So it was it was it was debilitating for me. And I I wanna chime in right there because I and then and talk to the audience for a second. If you're an adult who's working in a school system or an education system of any kind, of any kind, in any capacity, a counselor, whatever you're doing, and you're involved in kids' lives like this. I know that there are a lot of other Jessica's out there who have been held back in life for a lot of reasons, but one of those reasons is being labeled, being labeled with special ed when it may or may not have been necessary.

There's so many people, and I have personally seen it, and it makes me very angry when people get labeled that and they don't need it. Or when they get labeled that and just treated like, well, you have maximum you have a a a maximum capacity of this little bit, and that's it. And you're too stupid for the rest. And you may not use those words directly, but there's so many other ways you can actually say that to people. And it does so much damage.

Please, please don't do that. Give people hope. Don't take away what little hope they have because you don't know what kind of effects it's gonna have on them. There are people in those situations that commit suicide because they feel like they can't do anything. That's just a real that's real.

And it, it just really angers me when I hear these stories and I know that they were avoidable. And I know that they were avoidable. She just if we just support people around us, but give them the right kind of support. And if you are out there and you feel like you're stupid and maybe you are in special ed and maybe you don't get it as quick as the rest of us, it doesn't mean that you can't do what the rest of us does. It might mean you have to go another way around it, but you can still do everything that the rest of us can do.

這就是我的簡短演講。我不得不說這麼多，因為我覺得這很重要。我還想談一些對你幫助很大的事情，像是我們之前在電視上的對話。你去接受心理治療了，對嗎？

Mhmm. Yes. And that made a major difference in your life? Yes. Yes.

是的。稍微聊聊這個。我剛開始去的時候，只談一件事，然後我就覺得，嗯，你知道，我還有很多其他的事情要做。你知道，我想談談我的生活，我的童年和青少年時期發生了什麼事。所以我在治療中會談到這些。

I spend about sixty minutes every week in in therapy just talking about everything that's that's going on. And that's that's really helped. And, you know, I I wish more people would take advantage of that because it is definitely helpful. I I agree. I think therapy I preach it all the time.

I think therapy is important. I think there's different types of therapy that work for different types of people. And dimensional therapy does not work for everyone. I mean and I know therapists. I will tell you right now, it does not work for everyone, but it does work for a lot of people.

And if you don't like conventional therapy, there are other ways you can go about it, but we all need therapy because we're humans. And sometimes it's just a matter of having somebody to bounce your thoughts off of to help you, you know, declutter your brain. So what what I'm hearing from you, I wanna want to I wanna point out to the audience is that you went from you went from there to here. You went from a place of feeling no hope, no confidence, very low self esteem. The biggest thing is no support because there's nobody there, to combat those negative thoughts that you were having about yourself.

對嗎？對。是的。所以，當你沒有人能反駁的時候，你就會很自然地接受它，相信別人告訴你的那些垃圾話。你懂嗎？

絕對沒錯。而且，不幸的是，我知道有些人的家人會這樣對待他們，一有機會就把他們打倒。你太蠢了。別試了。我感覺我真想一腳踹在他們額頭上。

那是違法的。所以我不會，但我真的想這麼做，因為我明白這會對他們的心理造成多大的傷害。我們都是靠這種心理學來運作的，所以這很重要。你懂嗎？你的心態決定一切。

So what advice do you have for someone in their teens listening right now who feels just the way you did, who is from a non supportive family, feeling hopeless, lost, and stupid. Find your voice. Find your voice. Make sure you find that voice. Make sure you don't lose it.

Make sure you don't give up hope because, you know, it might seem like it's a long road to get from point a to point b, but you'll get there. You will. And you'll look back on those moments, you know, and in those moments, and you'll say, wow. I had, you know, all this resilience, and I'm not that same person. I am a better version of myself.

That's awesome. Now the I have one more question for you. For the people listening who are who have people like you around them, and, really, this actually really applies to more than just teenagers, but who are feeling the way you felt about yourself. What would have made a difference for you back then? For more people to listen, more people to take me seriously, more more people to let me talk, let me speak, you know, hear what I have to say, and just be honest with me.

And, you know, don't sugarcoat things. You know, because, you know, a lot of a lot of times staff do that in in schools, you know, and, you know, just be honest and tell me flat out, like, why I'm labeled that. What like, what makes me that way to to you or to that school system or to whomever? And, you know, I I wish they were honest more with me and and not secretive in in con their conversations about me. And, you know, I wish that, again, they listened to me because I tried to speak about it and I was brushed off because I didn't matter.

And the school system that I went to and and went through, they didn't care about anybody really. Well, I would say you do matter, and you're mattering right now because I am positive that you're inspiring some young girl out there right now who is where you were. I really believe that. And for for what she was just talking about for those around someone like her, don't just slough slough off a teenager. Like like, they don't matter.

就好像，他們的感受根本不重要，你會覺得，哦，你只是個愚蠢的青少年，忽略了這一點，因為這樣做造成的傷害比你想像的還要大。你懂嗎？有時候，我們成年人也會這樣做，卻沒有意識到這樣做實際上造成的傷害，首先，會損害我們和孩子的關係，其次，會損害他們的自尊和自我價值。或者你根本不知道他們在想什麼。你可能正在說一些愚蠢的話來影響他們的未來，你知道，你對他們重要的事情置之不理。

You know, I wanted to say that to the audience. Well, Jessica, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to come on here and being willing to be vulnerable, and tell your story. And I and I know that your story is more average than you think. And you you were never abnormal. I just wanted to say that too.

You were never abnormal. Thank you. You just didn't fit into the stupid little conventional box that our system wants to put people in, which by the way, only about maybe 30% of the people actually fit in properly. But that's a whole another story. But you were never abnormal.

你現在已經不是我遇見你那天的那個你了，我永遠也不會知道你的背景故事。是的。那不是我現在看到的你，也不是現在的你。我很高興你能夠擺脫這一切。再說一次，這對我來說是一段感人至深的插曲，因為我真的希望這條訊息能傳達給更多像你一樣的年輕女性，讓她們知道你還有希望，因為傑西卡曾經也有希望。

是的。是的。我，你知道，我只是想，只是想擁抱每一個人，你知道，我也是。但我們不能。是的。他們還沒哭出來。

Right. Well, thank you, Jessica, for being on. Thank you for having me. And now for a mind shifting moment. If you're listening right now and you are where Jessica was, you feel stupid.

You feel abnormal. You feel hopeless about your future because of the way you've grown up. I want you to know you're not a failure. There is hope for your future just like there was hope for Jessica. She's not special.

Anything that she can do she did, you can do too. I want you to know if you don't have support around you, you may have to be the one that advocates for yourself. Don't believe the hype that you can only accomplish a certain amount. That is never true. You just got to find a way around it.

I hope that you were able to listen today and that you were able to get hope for yourself and your own future. It is possible because it was possible for her. Thank you for listening to mind shift power podcast, Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel at the mind shifter. If you have any comments, topic suggestions, or would like to be a guest on the show, please visit FatimaBay.com/podcast. Remember, there's power in shifting your thinking.

請關注下週節目。