Fatima Bey: 0:23

Hello and welcome everyone. Due to the nature of this topic and organizations involved, my guest today is going to use an alias, so today we have with us Miss Lulu. She is from the USA and this is a very sensitive topic. It's very controversial and, as you know, I don't stay away from those, but especially on the world stage right now it's a very sensitive topic, so I want to read to you some numbers that I discovered that I think are relevant to this topic, and this is according to the Trevor Project's 2023 survey.

Fatima Bey: 1:02

A staggering 41% of the LGBTQ plus young people seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. As we're recording this, this is 2025. I don't know if those numbers have gone up or not, but I'm going to guess they probably have. And for transgendered and non-binary young people, the numbers are even more devastating. Nearly one in five transgendered and non-binary youth attempted suicide in the past year. And, just as an FYI, lgbtq plus is too much of a tongue twister for me, so I will say alphabet community, and that is not meant in a derogatory term, is meant for, so that I can say it easier. So when you hear me using that reference, that's all that I really mean. So how are you doing today, Miss Lulu?

Miss LuLu: 1:57

I'm doing well, thank you.

Fatima Bey: 2:00

I'm glad that you came on today and, first of all, thank you for being willing to talk about this, and you are just the right person to have this conversation, so tell us why you're here.

Miss LuLu: 2:11

So when I saw the description of what it is you talk about, I think for me.

Miss LuLu: 2:16

I have young women, I have children and I am incredibly nervous about the world that they are going to grow up in. And I have worked with so many people that have told me incredibly powerful and incredibly vulnerable and incredibly devastating stories, and I see so much of the world where there's just a lack of understanding and that lack of understanding creates real pain for a lot of people and, you know, it creates death even right, and it's just really tragic that if people could relate a little bit more, if they could internalize, if they could have a personal experience, if they could hear some of these very vulnerable stories, perhaps they might choose a different course of action. So certainly, if I can share some of what I have been allowed to hear and it can allow other people to understand a different perspective than the one they've had, then that would be incredibly valuable. But more so than that, it's really just trying to broadcast the world that I hope that my girls grow up in.

Fatima Bey: 3:36

Yes, Now, when it comes. We're here to talk about suicide amongst the alphabet community. It is a really big deal. I just read some numbers and I also want to add to that for the audience. I don't care what the numbers say. They're always higher than what they count, it's true on a lot of topics, because they can only capture what they can capture. They're not going to get a response from everyone. Everything's not going to get counted. So, with that being said, I'm going to guess that those numbers are actually probably higher.

Fatima Bey: 4:11

And the one in five transgendered that have attempted suicide over the past year I am positive that they don't know about. The other two, you know, they only know what's reported, and there's a lot that's not reported that their friends might know about. But you know, anybody who's listening to me knows that I have a big heart and compassion for hurting people, period, no matter who those hurting people are. And so today we're going to talk about the hurting people who are a part of that community. So I want to ask you this why should we care if no one in our family is a part of the alphabet community? I don't know anybody who's gay or transgender, so why should I care?

Miss LuLu: 4:52

Yeah, and then that can be a real challenge, especially if you are sort of surrounded by a community that actively doesn't support that. So a lot of religious communities, for example that, so a lot of religious communities for example, publicly don't support that group, and so why should I care? Everybody around me has the same opinion. You know that this doesn't apply to me, and I think one of the really impactful things, having worked in a crisis hotline situation, is how many people are dealing with this silently? Yeah, and so you probably do have people around you who are dealing with this, and it doesn't mean that they are, you know, flamboyantly inside a very strong gay person that you know has stuffed it down. There's varying degrees of this and there's oh my gosh, I was once, you know, aroused by a picture of another woman and I didn't expect that. Or you know, a man saying that and just like, oh gosh, what does that make me? And sort of this.

Miss LuLu: 5:58

There's spots in our life that we don't broadcast to other people, and it's amazing to me that the stories that I have had shared with me I can't tell anybody, right, nobody around me knows, and it means that these people are living in extreme loneliness, with very dark thoughts, and that is such a bad combination. It's like a form of torture, it really is. And you know understanding that you might have to choose between having a family and being able to tell your truth, or you know whatever that might mean, and so just being generous to the concepts of it and recognizing that when you say a really heavy thing, right, oh, they deserve that. Or you know some of those things that we've heard of you know well, you know, no wonder they're suicidal. You know why do they deserve?

Miss LuLu: 7:01

And the problem is is that somebody around you might internalize that in a way you're not even expecting, and it might not even be about LGBTQ. The problem is is that it's a difference, it's a thing that we can point out that makes a certain group different than a mainstream group. And so if I have some difference, hey, I'm dyslexic, that makes me different and I feel really weird about my differences. And, gosh, you don't seem to be accepting about people who are different than you in that space. Maybe you're just not allowed to be different at all.

Miss LuLu: 7:32

And then that just leads to a world where we're all trying to conform to this thing that very few of us actually are, because we think that is what's required of us to be part of the community, and so you know, that's really why I think it matters.

Fatima Bey: 7:48

So what I'm hearing, what I'm extracting from what you're saying, is that the reason we should care is because of the mental effects that it has of other people around us that we're not always aware of. We don't know everything, we don't know what other people are going through, and I completely agree with you. There have been times where I have personally myself said something. You know times in the past where I've said something and I was just making a statement about how I felt about something, not fully aware that I was actually talking about the person next to me, right, and then finding out later that I was, and it's like, oh crap, maybe I shouldn't have said all of that.

Fatima Bey: 8:23

And I'm a very blunt, direct person and I say I do speak my mind, but sometimes there's ways of doing it, and it's not always necessary, but even if it is, there's a way you can do it that's not as judgmental, or at least come across that way. You just don't know what people are dealing with, and this is something that you have personally had a lot of experience with, with the people around you and working with this community a lot, which is why I have you on here, and so you have an understanding that I don't. I don't have an understanding of what it's like to be any part of that community, but I do have people around me that are and understand that they're just as human as me and everybody else.

Miss LuLu: 9:05

Right.

Fatima Bey: 9:06

But they have. Would you agree that people in that community have nuanced issues that maybe the rest of us don't understand?

Miss LuLu: 9:14

Absolutely. I mean you talk about intersectionality, right, and you start adding relationship dynamics and family dynamics and you know race and ethnicity and religion and right, the intersectionality of some of these communities gets so complicated because there is just so many layers to their identity that feel othered that, yeah, the nuance there is very individual and you know an urban youth who felt, you know, maybe their communities felt more accepting and so they were able to be out at a very young age and free. They still are at risk for suicidal thoughts for plenty of other reasons, and the internet and the public exposure to absolutely everyone in the universe, doesn't free them, but certainly those in communities who are less accepting and therefore they are just struggling to figure out am I even allowed to be here, am I allowed to be in this space? And you know what parts of myself do I have to shove down and hide in order to be an acceptable member here?

Fatima Bey: 10:26

Now I want to mention this because we're both American. We're here in the US. This topic is less. It's still an issue here in the US, but it's a lot more accepted here and I would say it's less of an issue here than it is in many. Most of the world. This is still a very, very, very sensitive topic. We don't have the numbers for those communities. There's really no real way to get them because most of these other societies, even if you have numbers, they're probably not real because they don't care to capture the real ones. It's difficult to capture the real numbers. So, without looking at their numbers, why do you think and I'm talking on a universal sense why do you think suicides are so high among that community?

Miss LuLu: 11:14

it's more accepting in the US. It is safer to be some of these community members in the US and yet it's not safe here. You know a lot of these people have stories about basic bullying. I mean even basic bullying can be very dangerous and being chased and being, you know, nervous to walk around at night. I mean, as a woman I can relate to that right and so it is more accepting and that just makes it that much worse to understand what it must like to live in other spaces where it is more dangerous.

Miss LuLu: 11:57

You are at more risk, right, because it's just that much more so. What's really interesting to me is I don't know if this is new, I don't know if this isn't the way it has been or it's just more accessible now due to the internet and due to, you know, the young generation's willingness to share some of these things. But suicidal ideation starts really young for certain people, and so these are thoughts that have been, they have lived with for a very long, sometimes starting at six, seven, eight years old which I can't, I can't understand, I can't relate to that directly. I have never been in a situation where the thoughts were so dark that I didn't know how to come back from them. I've been deeply sad, I've been through some really hard times, but my brain doesn't work that way, and I think it's really important to recognize that, because I've now been exposed to people in my personal life that their brain does, and I have to just accept that that is a difference, that I don't need to have that experience in order to just say, hey, that is your reality. And because that's your reality, let me help you where you are, not where I am, and that happens so little that I think globally when we're talking about access to support.

Miss LuLu: 13:30

As soon as you start feeling inhuman, as soon as you start feeling like there is no hope or access to be this person that you feel inside, then is life really worth living? Yeah, and so even with supports, if you aren't able to be honest with people, you're cramming these emotions that you are feeling on a regular basis down and down and down, and we all know that not only do those emotions have real impacts to your psyche and your ability to be a functional person, but they have physical ramifications. That much emotional turmoil comes out physically, and so some of these people are sick and it just feels like life will never get better, life will always be this hard, and so it just doesn't feel like there's a lot of alternatives for this group if they can't find their in-circle and what's wonderful is, some people do find their in-circle and then they are able to thrive, but they have to usually grow up enough.

Fatima Bey: 14:56

To then be able to be mobile enough to be able to find, to say and if you are transgendered, if you are homosexual or anything, there are places in the world that they'll just kill you. They will literally kill you, and if they don't kill you, they'll, at minimal, ostracize you to the point where you don't feel human anymore, which I personally feel is wrong. Humans are humans, period, and it's something that you hear coming from me all the time If you listen to this podcast at all. I believe that humans are humans and I'm going to bring this up because this is very controversial and I don't like to ignore controversy. I like to address it.

Fatima Bey: 15:36

I'm a Christian and there are many people who are Christians that might be even pissed off that I'm even having this episode because I'm not coming at homosexuality as you're wrong. Get straight and shut up, like that's not my mentality, even believing that homosexuality is not created by God, because many of the Christians out there believe that that does not take away from them being human, and I want to say that out loud. And the reason I'm saying that is because I think a balanced conversation needs to happen around this topic, and I very rarely ever hear that it's either way over on the left or way over on the right, and I don't hear a conversation in the middle that kind of understands both. And just because and I'm saying this in representation for not myself, necessarily, but for other Christians out there, because it is an issue, and not just in the US, but across the world Just because someone is a part of you know, what I'm saying is the alphabet community, and I'm generalizing it doesn't make them less human. God still cares about them just as much as me, and I strongly, truly believe that.

Fatima Bey: 16:47

I have a sister who's been married to a woman for over 20 years and we love her we really do. She's part of the family. My mother loves her, like the rest of us, and it never would occur to me to treat anybody as less than human, and that's a message that I want to get across to the listeners out there who are Christian or whatever other religion, because there might be other religions, but it's the same sort of belief, set, set of beliefs when it comes to this. And you can still and this is going to be controversial- Y'all get ready for this.

Fatima Bey: 17:26

You can still believe that God made just Adam and Eve and treat homosexuals like humans. Oh my God, I said it.

Miss LuLu: 17:36

Yeah, I mean, what's really fascinating to me is just it feels so one side of the conversation, of Christianity in and of itself, in the sense that most Christians, if you're Christians, you believe in Christ. The idea is the New Testament is sort of the mainstay of the thing. Right, the Old Testament is there to give us a lot of lessons and a lot of context and a lot of background, but we're Christians because we believe in the New Testament, right, and you know, what's really fascinating is Jesus made friends with people who were sinful, who were considered sinful. So even if that is your perspective, it's not mine your perspective, it's not mine. If that is your perspective as a Christian, that this is a deep sin that you are committing by being that, that still doesn't free you from the basic tenant of Christianity, which is love your neighbor as yourself.

Fatima Bey: 18:38

There's so many other deep sins, as you like to say, that we still befriend people and deal with, and it's just silly to me that we favor one over the other and even all other deep sins. I still treat them like they're human. I don't treat them any different than I do anybody else. Now, if you're something like a child molester, that's a different story. Because you're not a human, that's a different story. Because you're not a human, that's a different story. But anything else, if God doesn't see you as less than human, then neither do I.

Miss LuLu: 19:10

And I think the real answer to why that one gets singled out so much more the trans or the sexual, you know, homosexual or bisexual or anything like that is it makes us uncomfortable.

Miss LuLu: 19:25

If we don't live in that world it makes us uncomfortable and because we're uncomfortable we just don't choose right, whereas if this friend I have, and I've had for a long time cheats on their spouse, I'm not uncomfortable because that didn't occur to me. Well, okay, that's probably more clearly of a laid out sin in the Bible than homosexuality is. And yet a lot of churches are filled with a lot of people who have cheated in their history and space and we openly talk about that of like you're forgiven and you're forgiven, and it's because it actively makes us uncomfortable. We don't understand it because we haven't experienced it or we worry what that means, for what other people are thinking about us at any given moment in time. It doesn't have anything to do with you and I wish that people ultimately got to that place. It's not about you all the time got to that place. It's not about you all the time. It's about making sure that everybody feels human and everybody can feel connected to a community, because that is how we are made.

Fatima Bey: 20:33

Yes, I really think, and I'll be honest with you audience. Y'all know I have no problem talking about uncomfortable conversations. I have them all the time. This is the most uncomfortable conversation I've had, actually, but I don't believe that I should tell people to do what I'm not willing to do myself, and this is something I'm always telling other people to do. So I already said this to Ms Lulu beforehand. I'm like, yeah, this is an uncomfortable conversation for me, but I think it's important to have one from a balanced perspective, where and again because Christians especially are villainized for not believing in homosexuality, or villainize those who are homosexual Instead of how about we have a conversation from a human perspective, even if we walk away disagreeing, that's okay.

Fatima Bey: 21:24

I'm not saying you're less than human. I'm saying I don't believe in your lifestyle, so to speak. But at the end of the day, we're still talking about human beings and I think it's so important that that message gets across. So we're talking about we started off talking about suicides. You know rates among those who are part of the alphabet community and homosexuals are, again, only one part, so, but for all of them, the reason I wanted to have this conversation is because one of the reasons they are so suicidal is because of people like us, the Christians, people who don't and again, it's not just Christians, because there are other religions that are just have the same exact stance. But the people like us who say, ok, well, homosexuality is wrong. God didn't create you that way, so therefore we have to treat you like you're less than human, and that is where we make the mistake and where we become the villains. Even and unfortunately there's a lot, there's a lot of mother that actually teach us to be villains, and that's not really the point. And I, as a, as a human being, I love our youth, no matter how, where they are in their journey, whether they're confused, whether they have everything figured out, whatever, how, where they are in their journey, whether they're confused, whether they have everything figured out, whatever, they're still human. I still care. So I still care about those people too, you know, because they're still human. They're still human. They're still human. Are y'all listening to me? They're still human. They still need the same thing the rest of us need, and just my heart goes out to them.

Fatima Bey: 23:03

You know what I have learned in dealing with transgender not transvestite, actually in particular, because I make wedding gowns and there's a couple of I'm making design dresses. There's a couple of times where I've actually made them for men who are transvestites and you know what I've done with them, had really blunt and honest conversations about their transvestitism and I don't think either one of them was trans. No one of them actually was transgendered. But one of them was shocked because I custom made a dress for him and he was. He knows I'm Christian. He was shocked because I didn't treat him like an animal and he was vulnerable with me. He was actually. It was hard for him to be really honest with me about certain things. I'm like okay, so let's just deal with it. And I didn't treat him like I would any other customer because I take care of all of my customers and I was kind of taken back at how shocked he was about it and he doesn't care if I call him he for those who like to get offended about everything. But I've had these really raw, honest conversations with them because I don't know what it's like to be them. It's the same thing as any other topic that I talk about. If I don't know what it's like to be you, then I want to understand. So I think more of us need to practice.

Fatima Bey: 24:21

You don't necessarily have to change. I'm not asking people to change their belief systems. That's where we make the mistake Telling people well, you shouldn't believe this. Instead of going there, have a conversation first, because you can accomplish more with a honest, raw conversation than you can with an accusation or a meanness. And I think that's where we a lot of people, a lot of people, and I would say on both sides, because there's some people that are part of the alphabet community that are just as hateful in the other direction. So I would say on both sides, we need to have raw, honest conversations with each other.

Fatima Bey: 25:00

And you don't necessarily have to walk away convincing each other to believe what you believe in, but at least convince each other. And you don't necessarily have to walk away convincing each other to believe what you believe in, but at least convince each other that we're human. That's all I ask, that's all I'm saying, and I know that, no matter what I say on this topic, someone's going to have an issue with it. So oh well, but you know, I don't care, I'm going to say what I want to say. Anyway, you're going to say what you want to say. But having said all of that before I ask you the last question. Do you have any other comments?

Miss LuLu: 25:27

You know, I think it's really fascinating the body dysmorphia that happens. So, for those of you who might not know, body dysmorphia is when you feel like something about your body is not what you expected it to be, or it doesn't feel right, and so that's. It's the path that the transgender community starts on is like this body doesn't feel like the right body I'm supposed to be in, and right, I've never lived that experience. I'm right, you know, it's this white female. Right, I don't know that experience. I have always lived in this body and I've been fine. However, find something about the situation you can connect to and so, just like you were talking about with you know, these people, if you find that thread of connection, it just allows you to set aside all the elements that you can understand, because they just are so outside of your realm of reality and what makes sense to you. Find some sort of common thread.

Miss LuLu: 26:26

So for me, as I've aged, one of the things that all through my youth, all through my young adult time and I'm now, you know, getting that middle-aged section my hair was a really big deal and it wasn't like I had the best hairstyle or you know, but it was just, it was a central part of my identity and you know it was like I can't imagine me with short hair and I don't, I don't want that and and all these things. So I have I've had long hair and, you know, spent a lot of money to to diet and all those things all over the way. And then I had children and in the pregnancy process you grow a lot of hair but then you lose a ton of hair and what seemed to happen with each pregnancy I didn't grow hair back, like it just didn't come back the same way. And so you know, I know that the audience can't see me right now, but you know I'm sitting here looking. You know I don't know that you even have known this about me at this point, but you know this is not real hair.

Miss LuLu: 27:30

Right, I'm wearing a wig because last year my hair got so thin that and I spend so much of my life right now because I work remotely on video conferencing, so I'm looking at myself a lot because of, you know, the little box that has your image and I could just see into my scalp line and it was just. I recognized what that did to me, right, and like it. It maybe, and and and you can look at me, I'm I'm not a big person with makeup, I'm not a big high fashion person, you know, I'm a pretty low key person and that made a big difference on just how I navigated the world. So last year I shaved it all off and I said you know, I will give my scalp some time to heal, I will buy a wig, I will traverse the universe with wigs in such a way that I feel like I look okay with who I am.

Miss LuLu: 28:25

That is a thread, and a small thread, a small sliver, of seeing what it is like to live in a body that you're not happy with. People who are more overweight than they want to be, have that image. People who can't grow, you know, can't create muscle the way they want to have that thread right. Find that thread of there is something about ourselves that we struggle with and then magnify that times a hundred and imagine if that was the world you lived in every day. What would you want someone to do to you?

Miss LuLu: 29:01

And it's? You would want them to be compassionate. You would want them to be kind. You would want them to be friendly and humorous and curious, right, and not judgmental and harsh and cruel, because guess what? We're all. You were talking about this in our prep session. What we do to ourselves almost always is worse than what the world around us is doing, and that's what leads to suicide, because you then internalize it and you magnify it, times however much, and it becomes so overwhelming that the thought of escape from this planet is just much better than staying in it.

Fatima Bey: 29:38

And that just hurts my heart to even hear that, because I just I don't want anybody to feel that way. I know I can't stop it, but I just hate for people to feel that way. It's, it's a big deal and I think that more of us need to really think about this. Part of the conversation goes beyond just the community.

Fatima Bey: 30:03

We're talking about how do we treat people who just aren't like us? Right, they can look like you, but they're not like you because they like different music and they have a different background and maybe speak a different language. How do we treat people that are not like us? Do we take the time to actually connect with their humanness? That really matters.

Miss LuLu: 30:25

And is it worth capitalizing on their pain to have expressed a judgment against us? What is expressing that judgment going to earn you Right?

Fatima Bey: 30:37

Oh, it's going to make you be better, because I said so, like that's the mindset, and it is just foolish and it just does more harm than good. It really does Do more good than harm, and sometimes it means walking away from certain things, but do more good than harm. So one last question what advice do you have for youth around the world right now? But I specifically want you to talk to the people in what I'm calling the alphabet community. Talk to them. What advice do you have for them right now?

Miss LuLu: 31:20

and private. Some of these people have to be exceedingly careful. So I am not unaware of that right. If you write something down and then that gets found right, that's not safe because that becomes the way that you get harmed right. But find an outlet, whether that is, you know, a friend, you know that's a luxury that not all of us have. But online, the benefit of online is it can magnify the pain, it can magnify the harm, it can magnify that and it also can connect people to people that they wouldn't normally have access to. So organizations like the Trevor Project, organizations like the Trevor Project, where they're available online and while they target the US community, they do accept, especially because a lot of the people that are coming in are coming in over their chat platform or their text platform, and so the chat platform is accessible worldwide.

Miss LuLu: 32:20

And there are other programs out there where you can connect with another real human being and try to have a conversation right, and try to have it in a safe place right. Go to a public library and do it on that computer. You know, use some sort of public device that allows you to have this conversation, or just be really careful to delete your browser history or whatever. But find those spaces where you can let out finally what you have been cramming and shoving so deeply inside, because you are so fearful of the ramifications of sharing that with people directly around you, because it has to come out. It is poisonous to themselves to just sit in that.

Miss LuLu: 33:04

And just because there's no cognitive dissonance, then as soon as your brain goes, yep, this is just the reality. I am never going to be allowed to be myself. And nobody ever gets to challenge you on that. Nobody ever inserts a counter position. You're stuck there. And so find a place, find an outlet where you can have even an anonymous conversation and you know, sometimes for people it's writing poetry where it's somebody else's story right, I'm not writing mine, and sometimes that's allowed and sometimes it. If you experience love and I'm not sure that everyone does, to be quite honest, but if you experience love, I have to imagine that you don't want that person to commit suicide. You don't want that person to think that the world is so awful. The better thing is for them to end their own life.

Miss LuLu: 34:22

So if that is a reality for you, then find a way to let people know that they can share something with you and you can keep it in confidence with them, because you might be that one outlet that I'm talking about, that that person could find and you never know when you will be that one outlet that somebody needed at the right time to save their life.

Fatima Bey: 34:47

I just want to reiterate I strongly agree that, for I'm thinking about people outside the US.

Fatima Bey: 34:54

If you're in a country like, I don't know, liberia, just pulling up a country out of nowhere where you know you could be really seriously hurt for being homosexual, for example. Online communities are the one place where distance doesn't matter, you know, and there are plenty of them doesn't matter, you know, and there are plenty of them. Facebook is probably the best place for online communities and outside of the US, facebook is the number one platform. Lasti checked anyway, I would recommend specifically to look on Facebook to find a community that can help you to not lose your mind, so you don't get to the point where you are feeling suicidal.

Miss LuLu: 35:39

And just make sure right. There's really cool programs now that allow you to keep something right. So maybe you have your Facebook profile and then you build an anonymous another one that lives in a protected space right and just really making sure that you feel safe, that there's the right levels of protection, so that you can find a community that you can be open with in moments of safety.

Fatima Bey: 36:04

Yes, well, ms Lulu, I have absolutely loved having you on here, and I'm glad that I waited for you to have this conversation. There are certain conversations that I haven't had yet because I'm waiting for the right person. I'm very particular, and I want someone who can be balanced enough to have a raw conversation without going nuts, and so I'm really glad that you came on and that you genuinely try to have a balanced conversation, even off air. So I just want to publicly say thank you for coming on and having this conversation with me.

Miss LuLu: 36:42

Yeah, thank you for having me. This was a hard conversation, I understand, but I'm glad that you were able to shed some light, because there's enough darkness. Amen to that.

Fatima Bey: 36:56

And now for a mind shifting moment. We talked about a lot in this conversation, but I want to pull back for a second and talk about the bigger conversation, which goes beyond the alphabet community. You see, we never know what people are going through. We don't know what mental ledge they're walking on, and sometimes your word, your attitude can say things that push them over the edge. Over the edge into suicide, over the edge into self-harm, over the edge into diving into a situation that is another form of self-harm. You don't know what weight your words carry, because you can't always see where people are. So I'm going to leave you with this your words, your attitude, your actions, they matter, they push, they pull.

Fatima Bey: 37:55

When it comes to dealing with people who are different than you, no matter what that difference is, how do you treat them? When it comes to how you treat people, I want you to answer this question Are you the reason they want to die? You've been listening to mind shift power podcast. For complete show notes on this episode and to join our global movement, find us at fatimabaycom until next time. Always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.