Fatima Bey: 0:02

Mind Shift PowerPoint. This is Mind Shift Power Podcast, the number one critically acclaimed podcast where we have raw, unfiltered conversations that shape tomorrow. I'm your host, Fatima Bay, the Mind Shifter. And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Chris Christopher Carazas. He is from Massachusetts in the USA. He is an author and a social impact analyst. So how are you doing today, Christopher?

Christopher Carazas: 0:35

I'm well. How are you?

Fatima Bey: 0:37

I'm good. I'm good. I'm looking forward to this conversation. I hope it's really fruitful for some listeners. So tell us today why why are you on this podcast?

Christopher Carazas: 0:47

Oh um largely because uh I I grew up autistic uh without ever really understanding that I was autistic until I was uh about 35. And I just wanted to share. Uh and I just wanted to share uh my story uh as it pertained to that with you.

Fatima Bey: 1:13

Yes. And that's because there are many, um, there are many, we have a lot more people with autism today than ever before. Some of that is simply because we're now understanding more, and so now we're diagnosing more. I don't know if it's necessarily that there is more, but we're definitely recognizing it more. But I also know that there are lots and lots and lots of, especially people your age, um, but even some youth today who are growing up not understanding why they're different. They don't, they haven't been diagnosed yet. And I I really kind of want to speak to those people and and make sure that we help them to know they're not alone. And for other people around them to try to understand them. So you say that you were diagnosed at 35. That is really old to be diagnosed.

Christopher Carazas: 2:05

In in some circles, yeah, it's really get old. Yeah.

Fatima Bey: 2:10

Because nowadays we we you know we're we diagnose them younger, but again, that's because we know more. Um when you were younger, they didn't they didn't know any better. Honestly, most of society didn't know any better. So tell us a little bit about how you grew up.

Christopher Carazas: 2:27

Well, I I um I grew up overseas, and I think that could have uh played a little bit um into why I got diagnosed late. Um I I grew up uh you know in in Latin America, I grew up in uh West Africa, um, and this was before the age of you know even cell phones and Facebook. That uh it was like literally at the beginning of the internet, if you can imagine that. And so I I think uh I and I and I went to international schools um where I think kids were a lot more forgiving than they were over um are here in the in the United States in terms of your quirkiness. So I uh I I use that in air quotes, quirkiness, right? Um we're all we're a little quirky in in our own ways, but um for a long time uh I I felt my quirkiness was a little too weird, right? Um like um I didn't if someone said X and I said X as well, uh people would get more uh they would get upset at me versus them, right? And then and I wouldn't understand why. Like they said this, I why why are they mad at me? And you know, it took a long time to understand like understand that it was like the way I I said it, like very serious, very uh very blunt, very direct. Um or I couldn't understand what when or any kind of social cues if someone was tired, bored, uh um upset, I mentioned that, or why even the sound of like someone chewing drove me up the wall versus uh everyone else seemed to not be bothered by it? Or even worse, like um like a sudden change in my routine or um a sudden change in plans, right? Um that was not not communicated ahead of time. Like, why the why was that so upsetting to me where where everyone else seemed to have it roll off their back, like eh, whatever, right? Um so you you can only kick and scream for so long before you start to annoy people. So um I didn't have the language, uh I didn't have the word for this till I was uh finding more about autism, but I realized that I s I have learned to mask, right? Um uh from an early age. So uh masking essentially is um, if I can put it in like the most simple terms, coming across as normal for everyone else's perspective while suppressing who you really are and really feel inside. So like like I had to repress the uh the the annoyance I had when someone toot with their mouth open or the the change of plans. Like I would get so frustrated. Uh but I had to like have it roll off my back, just like everyone else. And um I I knew the mask took when in class, like as I got older in high school, like pleasure to have in class, often prepared, uh, really wonderful, uh uh with his colleague or with his uh with his classmates. Um you know that that's when I knew like the they weren't really applauding me, they were applauding that mask um that I had put on to come across as normal when I didn't feel so normal.

Fatima Bey: 6:45

So you just uh unpacked a lot, you just told us a lot about some of what it was like growing up. Um you touched on school a little bit. What are give us some more details of uh signs, I would say, that your brain is wired differently.

Christopher Carazas: 7:09

Um it was all very like different kinds of signs. Like my biggest there there was really nothing to fear or there was no like rhyme or reason, but like one of the things that um really like triggered me, and I use that with with air quotes too, is like the hallway where the sound like um I would get so tet like so tense and like um like uh jumpy, as if like, you know, when like if you steal something and it's like your first time stealing, you like every little sound, like uh because I everything was so crowded, um like uh I just I just always seemed to tense up. Um like meanwhile, like I knew I was wired a little bit differently when things that seemed so complex to everyone else, like learning a learning a language or um or like math, right? You just show you just showed it to me once, and then all of a sudden I could do it in my head, right? Um like even if it was like um al like algebra calculus, I could do things like that in my head in like like a calculator, like a machine. I didn't really show the other thing though, like um I showed or I I could feel emotion, I could feel empathy, but it was hard to show it, right? Um and or at least at least verbalize it or find the words for it at the right time. Uh for like if if someone's cat died or something, like like I would feel bad for the person, I would feel bad for the cat. I love cats or I love I love pets. I I I even have a dog. But it's like, oh well, everyone dies. You know, that that would come out of my mouth first rather than saying, oh, I'm I'm sorry. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I like I didn't mean anything bad by it, right? Other than like it was like a faux pas, right? Um so I I had to learn to lead with uh lead with uh with that really sucks, man. Like uh rather than what really wanted to come out of my mouth first was everything dies, you know, like and then I'm really sorry your cat died. Um or physical contact. Like like my mom would try to hug me, I would squirm. Like I would like push anyone away that like try to give me any kind of I still do, any kind of physical contact. Like I have to brace myself for, right? Um and that to me that wasn't normal, right? Like who doesn't like a hug, right? Or um, but you know, when I learned uh when I the more I learned about autism, you know, it's like little signs like that, like um strict adherence to routines, uh they're not comfortable in in crowded spaces or loud environments, or or they don't really appreciate physical contact uh as m as easily as someone who is neurotypical or doesn't have or is it on the spectrum, right? And just just little things like that would would um would really make me stop and pause and made me realize that I was a little bit different than everyone else.

Fatima Bey: 10:47

And how did you handle those thoughts when you realized I'm a little bit different? Like what was your next thought?

Christopher Carazas: 10:53

Um Well, uh in in high school or in school, it was like high school and stuff is the worst time for everybody. Like everyone everyone feels awkward, but I I just felt like terrible, like even worse, right? Uh, because it's like like I I I didn't even know what was going on, right? Like why why I was so like so sensitive and I used like and so um easily overwhelmed. Like I didn't know what to do. I just kind of like buried it, right? I um what I really wanted the world to see was that, oh, uh Jessica over there wants to give me a hug. I'm gonna let her, you know. And uh this guy won this guy on my soccer team wants to high-five me. And I'm gonna, I guess, high five him, even though I really don't want to. Uh even though it's like it makes me really uncomfortable. Um and that's what I kind of did and uh back in the day. Now that I'm older, I really don't care as much. Uh I I I will throw people a bone once in a while. Like if if like my my parents, like if they want to give me a hug, I'll be like, okay, fine. Yeah, like even though they know I don't like it. But um I'm not I'm not so afraid to show it, my my discomfort, um, especially with that.

Fatima Bey: 12:22

So if there are I'm I'm asking you all of those details because I think these are these seem like minor, minute details, but they're details that are true for a lot of people in the spectrum, and not just you. Everybody's details aren't the same because everybody's not the same. But sensitivity to something physical or audible is very common. Um, but I have learned that you'll it's different with all of you. It just it just really is. But I want people to hear themselves in what you're describing and consider whether or not they're in the spectrum themselves because I think that, and you can correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not in the spectrum, you are. So I think that being diagnosed can be actually helpful because it it can give you the perspective about yourself that you need. I think one of the worst things that happens when people are undiagnosed is low self-esteem. That's the word we used to use. Now we call it lack of confidence, lack of self-worth. There's a million different terms you can give it, but it all boils down to the same thing. When you don't know who you are, it's much easier to believe that you're not you're nothing, you're no one, or there's something drastically wrong with you, and it's all your fault. Um did you ever have those sort of those sort of thoughts? Am I describing what you were thinking? Where am I off?

Christopher Carazas: 13:51

Absolutely. Um it was it was more prevalent when I didn't know what was going on, right? Um not uh now it's there's so much out there in terms of resources. Uh, there's a lot more better understanding on autism and um like even uh testing. Uh like uh kids kids these days can go into uh you can even do an autism quotient test online, even. You just you can just Google it and take it. Um you can work with your school counselor um and get get tested to facilitate the that conversation. But um like growing up, I felt I felt awful, right? Um I I never really showed it, right? Um I I wish I had had the resources I had when uh the the kids do today. Um and so I I had uh I was also diagnosed with ADHD ADHD when I was a kid. And so every every everything um was kind of like chucked up to that whenever I would say it felt different. It's like you're just you know, you're just being uh uh ADHD, dude. You know, like um and that wasn't it, right? I I was on Ritalin uh and uh later Adderall, and it even even then I still it helped a little, uh, but like that that low self-esteem was was prevalent in everything I did, which made me even even work harder because I didn't wanna I don't want to feel that way. And even though I did well in school, like the the social component made me um feel worse and feel more awkward.

Fatima Bey: 15:50

Do you think you would have felt a little bit better had you been diagnosed as a teen?

Christopher Carazas: 15:54

Hmm. I think it depends. Um I think at at the time, like I and I'm using it from my from my context and my my time frame. Uh because autism was not as well understood then as it it is now. Um I'm kind of thankful. Well, on one hand, I'm thankful I didn't get diagnosed then because uh because we were I was even ignorant in my mid-30s about it, right? Uh but it more so I think the world was a lot more ignorant uh in the in the early n or late 90s, early 2000s about it that I think I would have just gotten just I would have gotten made fun of more. Um and it would have I think it would have hurt my um or I I would have perceived it as hurting my reputation more. And I'm using that in air quotes, right? Uh because I uh kids were a little bit more horrible then than they they are today, right? I think I think kids I think kids and people are a lot more understanding and open now um about autism and are are are a lot more accommodating. Um but so on uh oh go ahead.

Fatima Bey: 17:14

I was gonna say yes and no, because I've talked about this um on and off air with with people, and some places in the world are still where you were growing up as a society. Their understanding is still just really ignorant and they just genuinely don't know. One of the reasons I have you on here is your age, is the fact that you're not a teenager and that you've already gone through that phase and you went through it in many different cultures and countries. There's not a lot of people that I can bring on here that have that combination of experience. So that's why you know you can speak to that a little bit more, but I I find that just in talking to people, there are some places in this world where people just they have zero clues what they're dealing with and what they're looking at. And instead they tell the kid you're stupid, there's something wrong with you, because they genuinely don't know that the kid's brain is literally wired differently, and they're probably the most gifted person in the room, but because they don't fall into the quote unquote normie box, you know, they're they're ostracized or treated less than. And one thing I know about self-esteem, it is absolutely everything. Your confidence about yourself can propel your future or kill everything. And that's why I think this is an important conversation because I want to talk a little bit more about you growing up and tell the the audience. It's on your website and it's in your book, but tell the audience what are the different countries you grew up in specifically?

Christopher Carazas: 18:51

Oof. Okay, so uh I I was born in Paraguay. I don't remember it because I left when I was two. Um I lived in Bolivia and Ecuador, uh, Ghana, uh, Senegal. Um so that was just and and the U.S. that was when I was just a kid. Uh but later, um I I lived in Switzerland. Uh I I started, I did college there. Uh I lived in Oman, uh, spent time in Turkey, uh spent five, almost five years in Madagascar. Um and yeah, so it was it was a varied, and and a lot of my professional work um took me to uh small assignments in places like Benin, Mali, Bangladesh, Haiti, uh mainly because of my of my language abilities, right? I I I learned French at such a young age that um uh my work uh led me to French speaking Africa a lot, a lot of the times.

Fatima Bey: 19:58

And I wanted the audience. To hear that because you are very fascinating, and we've only touched on a teeny tiny piece of information about you. But I I wanted them to hear that you're not some guy who just lived in one small little town and knows three things, and that's all you know how to talk about. You've traveled around the world, you've dealt with all these different cultures on different continents, and um, and you did all of this, you know, most well, until you were 35 at least, undiagnosed and, you know, trying to navigate a world of quote unquote normal people when you yourself were not getting what everybody else was getting. You know, you're you you your brains wired differently, so you weren't getting um, you know, picking up on social cues and things like that. And I I just can't imagine the amount of masking that you had to do to be able to get to do all of that. I think that's pretty amazing. Um, what do you have to say to the young Christophers who are out there right now in Guatemala and Zimbabwe and Taiwan and name a country where they're just not as affluent in the knowledge of people in the spectrum? And maybe, you know, maybe they're listening to you and saying, Oh my God, that's like me. What do you have to say to them?

Christopher Carazas: 21:15

I'd say, first of all, like it's okay. There, there are a lot of like there are a lot of resources you could look look into. Um uh I think I think my favorite one is uh called Autism Speaks, um, where you can they where they have a toolkit and uh they have the autism quotient and you can learn more about it. Um and then second, and then afterwards, like it's okay. It's a gift, right? Um even though it might not be culturally accepted uh in in most places to your earlier point, um, like you don't have to go more beyond that, other than you know, accept yourself and and that's okay. And you know, work with your parent parents. Um and I would I would encourage you to look at it as as a as a superpower because it is. Um it it there's enough there's enough out there in terms of information and knowledge that you can know how to leverage autism to your advantage because when leveraged correctly, it it is such it's such a strength because we have to survive a world by thinking outside of the box all the time. And it's true for it's not true just true for autism, it's true for people with dyslexia, it's true for um people with ADHD. We are such out-of-the-box thinkers that it it benefits society more with the way you think, and don't be afraid to embrace it, even though it might it might not be culturally acceptable at right now, because eventually it's gonna come to your country or uh um it it's in enough research and enough knowledge about autism is gonna come to where you live, and it might not necessarily change your culture, but at least the it might help the people around you see and embrace your autism more than than it is now.

Fatima Bey: 23:24

So you're saying that people with autism still have value?

Christopher Carazas: 23:28

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um I mean, I mean, I think you know, people like hate him all you want, but Elon Musk is on the spectrum. And look, he he's launching rockets, he's the richest man in the world, right? Um that that may that may be too far long, but like there's there's a lady I know who got diagnosed in her 60s and she was a federal appointed judge. Um there is um this girl Lauren I know who is she was a broadcaster for NPR and got diagnosed in her around the same time I did. Um, and she told her story to the world. Um then there like there's there's me. I I mean I I'm just some random dude who builds so social impact models so that NGOs and corporate social responsibility teams can measure their social impact in financial terms. It's there's so much value we can add to this world. And like you shouldn't, you shouldn't be ashamed because you're a little bit different.

Fatima Bey: 24:39

Yes. And I wanted them to hear that coming from you, and I think it's a very important message. Now, I mentioned earlier that you're an author. What is the what is the name of your book and how does this conversation tie into your book?

Christopher Carazas: 24:52

Um so it it does in one of two ways. It it follows my youth as as growing up autistic and uh and and then getting tested, right? So on on one on one hand of the book, uh there is that that sense of relief that everything I've been feeling has has had a name and now what? The other thing it deals with is um the moment of abuse that came with it. And I got out of the uh, you know, with with anything that there's gonna be um you're gonna encounter some resistance from the world uh uh when they find out you are different, but that's okay because that can be over that can be overcome, which the um you know the book tracks is like overcoming that that moment in time. And now it's like uh not now that I'm not in that situation, now what? Like how can I how can I thrive now moving forward?

Fatima Bey: 25:50

Okay.

Christopher Carazas: 25:51

What is the name of the book? Oh, it's called Now That I'm Still Here.

Fatima Bey: 25:55

Okay, good. And how can people find you?

Christopher Carazas: 25:58

Uh they uh they can find me on Substack. Uh that's where I do a lot of uh day-to-day writing. I talk about uh things like uh growing up autistic, the impact of uh masking, uh I talk about other issues like grief, um neurodivergence, uh um and and rebuilding. Uh but people can also go to uh my website, chriscarrazas.com. Um, and um but a lot of a lot of the activity uh I I don't I don't use Facebook. I don't like I mean I I do use Facebook on occasion, but uh most of my activity is um on Substack. I should get on Instagram. I mean I am on Instagram, but I should use it more.

Fatima Bey: 26:46

Thank you so much, Chris, for coming on. And I really truly hope that you changed a life today just by telling your story. And honestly, audience for to for the audience, you really only heard less than half a page of his life. So you I would recommend that you f either follow him on Substack where he puts a lot of other content, but I know he talks a lot about the details of his life in his book. And I really think that a lot of people can relate to what he has to say and some of the stuff that he's actually been through. Um it's about so much more than autism. That's the conversation I chose to have for today's episode, but he has a lot more to say. So um once again, Chris, thank you so, so much for coming on.

Christopher Carazas: 27:31

I I hope so, and thank you for having me. I really enjoy the the the your platform as well and the conversations that you're having. And um, you know, I'm I'm just a a little fragment in in the the quilt that you have that you're you're making here on your podcast as well.

Fatima Bey: 27:51

And now for a mind-shifting moment. I want to point out something that Christopher said today that goes beyond autism. When your brain is wired differently, when you see the world differently, when you see things other people don't see, when your experience is different than what you hear of everybody around you, you might not be weird. You might be gifted. You see, sometimes blending in is one of the worst things you can do for yourself. Sometimes masking holds back the real you. In his case, he was masking to hold back the real him to be accepted and blend in with the world. But how many of you are masking your real brilliance? Your real greatness? How many of you of you are trying to blend in? Don't blend in. Be the real you. The people who think differently, they're the ones who save lives. They're the ones who come up with the creative innovations, they're the ones who better society. It's not usually the ones who blend in. Just something to think about. You've been listening to Mind Shift Power Podcast for complete show notes on this episode. And to join our global movement, find us at FatimaBay.com. Until next time, always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.