Fatima Bey 0:02

MindShift Power Podcast. This is Mind Shift Power Podcast, the number one critically acclaimed podcast where we have raw, unfiltered conversations that shape tomorrow. I'm your host, Fatima Bay, the Mind Shifter. And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Kelly Edmondson. She is out of Florida in the USA. She is the founder and CEO of Timely Presence. How are you today, Kelly?

Kelly Edmondson 0:32

I am doing well, Fatima. Thank you for allowing me to participate in your podcast.

A Son’s Death Sparks A Mission

Fatima Bey 0:37

Well, thank you for coming on. So tell, I like to dive right into the conversation. So tell us, why are you on this podcast talking about timely presence? What is it?

Kelly Edmondson 0:48

Yes. So three years ago, my son, Darius, was um sleeping and had a seizure and unexpectedly passed away. I am a nurse by background, and so I've spent a lot of my time in emergency rooms and ICUs taking care of people families after they've lost a loved one. But um when Darius died, I began to understand grief in a whole new light. And so I decided to build something that actually helped take care of people in that time after the funeral, when grief gets hard, it's tough to sleep, um, and you feel like you are forgotten by all of the people who sent you cards and love at the funeral. And so I built timely presence just for that.

The Lonely Days After The Funeral

Fatima Bey 1:46

Yes, and I think that that is very, I like the name of it. I think it's very appropriate. Um, but I like the idea that you are focusing on the on an area that a lot of people ignore. And I think it's an important one. So we all, you know, as you said, everyone grieves, and there's those moments when it's long after the person is gone or doesn't seem that long, weeks or months, maybe a year. Uh what actually happens the moment people stop checking in? Like for a teen, what does that look like in real life?

Kelly Edmondson 2:21

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, even around the funeral, I think for the teen in particular, um, I think people are very comfortable having death conversations. Uh, very comfortable is probably a stretch. I think people are uncomfortable having death conversations in general. I think it's a lot harder for them to understand how to have those with younger people. And so after the funeral, um, people are uncomfortable with bringing up the name of the one who passed away, talking about them and what they brought. But those memories, those stories are so important to the healing journey. I have a very dear friend who lost her brother at the age of 15. And she talks often about how people put away his her parents, actually, put away pictures of him. They put away his jersey, and his bedroom really became a shrine. For her, she really needed to still feel connected to him. And so she would sneak in his room at night and lay in his bed and think about all the memories that they had as a kid. And to me, um, that's the most important part of grief. Showing up, being able to remember that the person you loved still existed, they still had value. And actually, over time, your memories of them, the laughs, the lessons, the connection that you had with them can continue to influence you, bring you joy, and touch your life. But you have to be willing to have people around you who give you the space to talk about that. So when we talk about timely presence, it's being present on days like the birthday of your loved one who passed away. Um, for people who have lost their parents, Mother's Day and Father's Day are some of the hardest days of the year. And that's really because the rest of the world is celebrating and you have uh, you're different, right? You're different, you're having a different experience. And so for people around you to recognize that days that typically bring joy, a holiday, a birthday, are days that feel different for you is really the crux of what presence and the grief journey looks like. And so that to me is a critical part of my work going forward. Helping to spend that to fill the gap on what I will call those lonely but very emotional days.

Teen Grief And Feeling Left Out

Fatima Bey 5:26

Okay. Um so for a teen in particular, how does that look a little bit different than adults in those moments?

Kelly Edmondson 5:35

Yeah. Yeah. For a teen in particular, you know, it's a little more unusual to experience death that early. Um adults typically have lost parents, grandparents. At some point, they begin to lose siblings and others they love. For a teenager, it's a lot more um unusual to lose a family member, a parent or sibling, um, even friends, which are particularly important for the teenager. So we know that traumas, which are car accidents, um uh drownings, um, violent accidents, they happen more frequently in younger people. And so teenagers can actually have a higher risk of losing a close friend during those years. And there's a few things about that that are unique. One is when someone loses a family member, a parent, a child, a sibling, everyone understands that grief. When you lose a close friend, that sometimes can be isolating because you're sometimes left out of what I will call the intimate ceremonies, the funeral planning, the celebrations of life. Um, sometimes you're left out of those things, but your loss is real. Um, for a teenager, the friend relationships are of the utmost importance. And so losing someone at that time in your life has greater significance than it may at other times in your life. But the adults around you don't always understand the the gratitude, the you know, the gravity of that loss. And so that's unique. The other thing that's unique is adults are a little less likely to talk to you about it. Right. They're uncomfortable having the conversation. Um, but a teen may want to have grief counseling. Um, they may want to have the opportunity to meet with the family member of their friend or loved one who passed away. And they don't always have those doors opened through for them, through the adults around them. And so it causes a teenager to need to be very bold and courageous and vocal about what they're feeling and they need during the grief process, which is generally not a burden that we like to put on the griever. Um we like the people around the griever to surround them and figure out what they need. Unfortunately for teenagers, sometimes they have to be more vocal.

Private Thoughts When People Move On

Fatima Bey 8:33

Um is typical. Very, very, very, very valid points that you've just brought out. And a lot of, I'm glad that you said all of that because these are things that I think a lot of adults around teens are not thinking about. They want to help, but sometimes they don't recognize that by leaving them out, we actually make it worse or harder for them to adjust and grieve. So what are what are the things what do you think are the thoughts people at any age start having uh that they don't say out loud once everyone seems to move on?

Kelly Edmondson 9:10

One of the very first things is just um extreme sadness. It's extreme sadness, and you may have less desire to participate in normal life, right? And so that may mean that you're less willing to be social. Um, that may mean that you are sleeping more or less. Um, either's true. Um, your eating habits can change significantly. One of the things that I think is the most freeing for people, um, immediately after my son died, um people want to reach out in that immediate time. They send texts, they call, but you don't always feel like having those conversations. And I think it's important to know that that's okay. Uh, it doesn't mean that you aren't um that you don't care about the relationships that you still have. It doesn't mean that you won't re-engage in them, but it is okay. And from a mental health standpoint, it's sometimes desirable that you spend time alone with you recognizing and learning how it's going to feel to live in the loss. Um, life is changed. Life is forever changed when someone leaves. And every individual has a unique relationship, right? My relationship with my son was different than my son's relationship with him, my husband's relationship with him, and each of us grieved differently. And what I appreciated is that the people I love the most let me know that that was okay. And so, for a teen in particular, being able to say, I can't talk right now, stepping away from social media that may have constant reminders of the loss, of the, it's it's it's a huge one. Um, the text messages that continue to come in, the the questions that continue to go to go on. It's okay to step away and say, I need a break. Um, you don't have to feel and you don't owe anyone a response to a text message in a day when you can't get good. I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you for saying that. Um, you you don't own a phone owe a phone call. Um and and I also found that if some things just make you more sad, um, if there are um discussions that make you upset, um, if someone died in a particularly difficult way, um, an accident, uh a suicide, um, an overdose, sometimes the conversations around those things um can be toxic for lack of a better word. And excusing yourself from those conversations and even more boldly making statements that say things like, I think that that discussion's unfair or inappropriate, are okay. It's okay to be able to do that. Um and so, you know, I think for the the teenager, it's such um really an in-between place to be. You understand what loss means, but often you've never experienced one before. And sometimes your parents haven't even experienced a significant loss yet. So their ability to be able to help you through this, um, sometimes you have to give your parents grace because they may have no context to help you through. But guidance counselors, um, there are um grief counselors that schools often put into place when there's a tragic loss at the school. Um, talking to your pediatrician um or or or your physician about your feelings and resources. Um and hotlines are really valuable places to be. I I will say social media has a lot of places to be. Um the adult in me would say, just be careful.

Fatima Bey 13:52

Yeah.

Kelly Edmondson 13:53

There are groups that are helpful, um, and there are groups that are not. And if something doesn't feel good, then um I would say listen, listen to your listen to your heart and mind there.

We Move Forward With Grief

Fatima Bey 14:06

I would add on to that and say if something, just because something's good doesn't mean it's good for you. It may be good for others, like what you're saying about the conversations, maybe a Facebook group, maybe uh a WhatsApp chat, whatever it is. Uh just because it's it's good or well intended doesn't mean it's good for you. And where you are in the grieving process, you might not be ready for that conversation yet. You might need a little bit of time. And a lot of what you're saying is so accurate, uh, so extremely accurate, and I think that it's just worth noting. Um let me, I want to address this because this is something that I think is really big for humans in general, but especially teens. The little voices in our heads. So when a teen starts thinking things like, I should be over this, or oh, maybe there's something wrong with me, what's really happening underneath? And are those things true?

Kelly Edmondson 14:59

Yeah. You know, one of my uh favorite sayings is that we don't move on from a loss, we move forward. And so what that means is it takes time, patience, um, and actually energy to figure out how you continue on um acknowledging the loss, but learning to find joy. One of the things that I think it's hardest for teenagers is to come to peace with the idea that I can be sad and still have and still be happy. Oh two things can be true at the same time. Okay, so um we don't move on, we move forward. Uh you know, I was thinking of a great example of this. Um much smaller scale. Um, but it's important to know we we grieve all kinds of things in life. We grieve the the loss of a loved one, we grieve a divorce, uh, we grieve the end of a sports season, right? We grieve many things in our lives. And so on a much smaller scale, um, a team that has made it to a championship round. Oh, yeah. Um, that team uh loses that final game, right? They lose the final state championship. Uh in that moment, the grief of not becoming champions is significant. But there's also pride that we made it all the way here, right? This idea that you can have two feelings at the same time. And the loss of a loved one is is very similar, right? Um, I loved uh my son. Uh, you know, I I I loved him, but I get joy when I think about uh the fact that I had him at all and what he brought to my life. I'm an awful silly guy, an awfully silly guy, uh class clown, really. And so um now, and I could not do this the day the funeral was over, right? But now we laugh about times that he was grounded. We laugh about um uh him learning to drive, um, and many of the troubles that he that he he brought, because they bring joy and they're real. This this isn't a caricature of who he was, it's real. Um and he was a whole person, and there were parts and things in him that were fantastic, and there were parts that were challenging and tricky. And I can look at them all now and understand um the fullness of him. And so um I I would say that grief is a journey. It will go on for the remainder of your life. And at no point should you feel like um, no point should you feel like you haven't given enough to the grief process, that a year down the line it's not okay for you to still have moments of sadness. Um, when you love and lose someone, that should be something you remember for the rest of your life. It can't consume your life. And so at some point, you are finding that you are months down the line having difficulty sleeping, eating, finding joy in other things. Those are conversations you need to begin having with your parents or some other trusted adult. But you should expect that as the grief process goes on, you'll always have a sadness. There'll always be a longing. But the moments when you find other joy are longer and longer and longer. That's the process. That's the process.

Fatima Bey 19:24

So when a teen, so back to uh the original question I was asking that started uh this response, the teen that says to themselves, I should be over this by now, or maybe there's something wrong with me. What you're essentially saying is that's not true. And that the process is going to be a little different for all of us, and that the key word there is process means it doesn't presto change, it'll change overnight. And that what you just explained, because you just said that you're, you know, you couldn't right after funeral, you couldn't have those kind of thoughts because you were still processing all of it. So if they are not over it in two months or six months, they might still be processing all of it because we don't all have the same processing timeline. Am I correct?

What Teens Need From Adults

Kelly Edmondson 20:11

That is exactly right. It is normal. It's normal. And not only is it normal for you to still be processing at six months, but it's normal for a day out of nowhere to suddenly be a day where you're sad, you're sadder than normal, right? Yeah. Um graduation is one of those days. You're your your friend, your best friend isn't at graduation. That's a day that you're celebrating, but you're still sad. Your mom's birthday, two years down the line. And that's not that's a day that you should still expect to have sadness. And it's very normal. Um, and so one of the things that my grief counselor said to me is be gentle with yourself. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves all the time. Be gentle with you. And I would say the grief process um is one of those times. You've got to be gentle with yourself. Give yourself grace, allow yourself to have moments a day. We we're not gonna have months down the line when we're not well. That's something we should talk about. But we should expect, as a normal part of the process, to have days where we just need to have tears. And that's not only okay, it's expected.

Fatima Bey 21:36

What is what would you say to the parents of the parents, not just parents, because it it we have more than just parents in our lives. It could be the auntie, it could be the grandmother, it could be the uncle who's not your biological uncle, but been a part of your family all your whole life. You know, your chosen family and your blood family, the people that are around teens. What do they need to understand and dealing with teens? With grief right now.

Kelly Edmondson 22:02

You know, I I think one of the most important things is teens are younger people, which means they feel and process things the same way we do. A team is not a teen is not exempted from grief. And so we have to acknowledge that they will have um the same process that we do. They will have sadness, they will need support, they'll need time, they will need grace. Um but more importantly, they need you to be in tune. Ask questions, not surface questions, not just how are you? Tell me what you're feeling around the loss of X. Tell me how you're sleeping, tell me how uh I can better support you and your memory of X. Making new rituals is one of the best things that we can do for healing. But sometimes teens need help with that. So if dad is suddenly gone or grandma's suddenly gone, but we spent every Christmas at grandma's house, helping your teen figure out what the new Christmas ritual looks like is critical for the healing process on a day that comes around every year. Yeah. And the way you help them build that new ritual, that new way of leaning into the future will be something they remember on that day for the rest of their lives. Rituals matter. Rituals matter. Um it's it's it's also really, really, really important that you don't say things like it's okay. Don't try to advise them out of the pain. You can't fix grief. Oh, I'm sorry.

Fatima Bey 24:18

Could you repeat that again? You can't repeat it like a hundred more times.

Kelly Edmondson 24:23

Right. Sometimes people just want to be heard. And listening and fixing are two different things. Okay, you gotta say that again.

Fatima Bey 24:33

Listening and fixing are two different things. Y'all hear that?

Kelly Edmondson 24:37

It is, you know, sometimes there's a problem we don't have a solution for. And listening and saying, I know this is difficult. I'm sorry. And just can I give you a hug? That's presence. That's what presence is. And that's what people who are grieving need, especially teenagers who may not have access to all the resources that adults do. I want to add to that.

Fatima Bey 25:08

I want to add to that. This everything you're saying is especially true and even true for the adults who don't know what they're feeling either. Because sometimes as adults, we might have a team, we want to guide them through. You're like, hell, I don't even know what the hell I'm doing. And maybe you don't. But that does that shouldn't stop you from following that same process and listening to your teen. And maybe y'all can grieve together. Maybe this is the way you can actually bond in a way that they wanted to stay away from you before. It's just because you don't know, don't have, you know, I'm talking to the audience right now and the adults, especially around the teens. Just as Kelly just said, just because you don't have the answers doesn't mean that you don't try to be there. And sometimes it can be as simple as a hug and just being like, I'm hurting too, cry together. That stuff matters. It and it helps, right?

Kelly Edmondson 25:59

This is such a great point. You know, the the research will tell you parents that cry with their children do exactly what you said. It creates a bond and accelerates the healing process for all of them. For all of them. Yep. Vulnerability in pain is a place to begin healing.

The Resource Gap For Teen Grief

Fatima Bey 26:23

That is an you should make that a pull card. I'm serious. That is a really good. I don't know if anybody ever said it before, but this is the first time I'm hearing it put quite like that. And I think that's an excellent quote. Now, you mentioned something to me uh before we recorded that I think is worth um worth noting as well. When it comes to research around people grieving, what did you discover when it comes to teens?

Kelly Edmondson 26:46

Yeah, so teens live in this really um interesting space. There is a ton of research on adult grief. We know that. It's it's the most common. There's a lot there. There's also some specialized research on grief in children. Um, teenagers live in this space where there is not nearly as much resource around how to support and manage this. Um and so I think it's important to note when we think of that, teenagers may have less access to resources like children, but they have more understanding, more command of their emotions, and probably deeper relationships like adults. And so, as an adult supporting a grieving teenager, I think it's important to lean into both of those facts. They have loved like you, they have memories and triggers like birthdays, holidays like you do, but they have less access to resources, to counselors, to external support systems. So adults have to stand in that gap. If I know that you process grief, you feel grief similarly to how I do, um, but you can't go get access to the support the same way that I can. Then my job is to stay connected, to ask questions, to have meaningful dialogue, even when you don't want to. Even when you don't uncomfortable, uncomfortable conversations, yes. To make sure that you are moving along the healing journey. Because there are times when we can get stuck, when the pain's too much, when the loss is too much. Often it happens when the relationship may have been toxic. And so we're talking to teens. Let's talk about what happens with teens. Every house isn't functional. We know that. Right. Every family isn't functional. And when you have teens that lose a parent that may have been distant, um, a sibling that they had a tough relationship with, that can complicate the grief process. Yes, it can sometimes make it more difficult. Those may be instances where we need to get a counselor or a psychologist involved. It's not a lifetime commitment, but it may be moments where we need to get somebody in because I have other feelings that I'm resolving underneath the grief.

Fatima Bey 29:43

I want to I wanna um I wanna point out, I want to talk about one thing that you said uh a couple of times. You said that teens tend not to have as many resources available when it comes to grieving. And that I already can hear the backlash of people saying, yes, there is, they have grief counselors at school. But here's the reality: Kelly's still right, but not in the way you think. So teens don't have realistic access to realistic counseling, realistic help. They have counselors and and and guided, you know, counselors of all kinds who are often overwhelmed, even if they are excellent. They got a million people to one. How are you gonna be any good when you're overwhelmed like that? So I for those who are responding um out loud to yourselves later on when this is not put out there, like yes, they do. They got this and that. The the con the ideas and concepts of what they have are different than the reality of what they have. So I agree with Kelly 100% in the statement in that our teens do not have the resources that they need when it comes to grieving. And that's a very general statement. It's you know, I'm just talking about overall, because there's blankets where that might not be true. But a lot of the uh counseling that's offered is sometimes ineffective or just powdering the booty and petting the problem and not actually helping. That's a different conversation, but it's a but it's a related one. So I just wanted to add that in there.

Kelly Edmondson 31:18

That that's a great point. And and and you said you it's a shared resource, right? The school and grief counselors, guidance counselors, they do an amazing job at the school, to your point. They they do they do amazing with the context they can work with. But when I have a grief counselor, I call and I give the time that works for me for the appointment. I'm away from work and other people, so I can cry and scream and whatever I need to do. It's a safe space to do that where I don't need to walk back out and be in front of my colleagues. And so um exactly. It's different. Very valid.

Fatima Bey 31:56

Yep. Yep. I used to uh this is just kind of related, but I used to uh I used to be a dorm supervisor at a job corps, and that title doesn't really say what I did, but part of what I was in charge was was case management of of my students, along with the uh counselor who was always overwhelmed and overworked. So one of the things I used to do unofficially is I would have counseling sessions in my office, and it was never planned. It was always this is needed right now, so I don't care what my title is, I'm gonna do it. And I would really, really help a lot of my students through things. But when it comes to your point of what you just said, it's something that I saw and and I still saw my students live through. They had to leave my office after they just got through crying, confessing whatever they said to me and whatever we were talking about, and highly, highly, highly, highly volatile emotional moment. And they have to go back out onto the streets, meaning the hallway, and deal with all the other students. So, what I would do, what I would do back then is I would say something stupid and ridiculous to make them laugh, to bring all of those emotions down and they could go back out there. Like they just got through crying, and I probably was hugging them, they made me crying in my arms, whatever. And I'll just say, All right, I'm done talking now, get out. You know, something like that. They would just laugh like Miss Bay, you crazy. And that would make them laugh and go out. But my point to the to the audience listening right now, the the reality of what our our kids have to deal with, our students have to deal with when they leave a session. If it's out of school, they have to deal with the people in the hallway. Um we don't think about it, but the location matters, even if it's digital. What do they leave have to deal with when they leave their bedroom? We need to be thinking about that when it comes to our teens. Okay, we can give them a counselor session, but what are they dealing with immediately when they leave that session? It's, you know, they don't live in a magic bubble. We should actually think about that. I'm off my soapbox now. I just care, I just care very deeply about what happens with our teens. And I really want the adults listening to get that some of that points, because these are some of the points that they're really not saying. Um, so uh that they're really not understanding, I would say. So, Kelly, let me also ask you this. What advice do you have for the youth of the world today?

Choose The Five Closest People

Kelly Edmondson 34:14

Yes. So we are going to totally switch topics here. Um, on my advice, and last night I I heard this on a podcast I was actually listening to. And it said, more than your circumstance, more than your um roles that you have in life, the thing that influences it you the most are the five people who are closest to you. Boom. The five relationships, the five people closest to you have the greatest influence on the outcome of your life. Choose wisely. Yep. Choose wisely.

Fatima Bey 34:50

Um well said. Absolutely well said. So I wanna, I wanna um, I want people to hear that you have uh uh advice beyond grief. And and you do, but this also what you just said ties into grief because when you're really going through the toughest time of your life and grief is one of the toughest things you can go through, um, who you have around you really, really, really matters. Really, really, really matters. So, in in terms of talking about uh grief, especially when it comes to teens, so you have something called timely presence, which we haven't talked about that much because I wanted to have the conversation first. So, what is time, what do you do in timely presence and how does that relate to teens?

What Timely Presence Sends And Why

Kelly Edmondson 35:27

Yeah. So um timely presence really describes what we do. Um for people who are on the grief journey, um, we show up through that first year of grief on days that the research says are going to be the toughest. So um for a teen who has lost a parent, um, we would send gifts that really are meant to connect you back to your loved one on days like their birthday, Mother's and Father's Day, the holidays, um, and and the year anniversary of the loss. Um, the gifts come um personalized to really reflect the unique bond um between you and your loved one. Um, and so that's the whole premise. It comes on the days that you need them, the days that matter most. Um, there's a reminder that we haven't forgotten you, your love mattered, and really I am here. That's the entire prep premise of timely presence. It's a simple concept for not a simple thing to manage.

Fatima Bey 36:36

Yeah, and that's a really good way to put it. Not a simple thing to manage. Um, so give me what are some of the examples of uh you said you send gifts throughout the years. What are those gifts?

Kelly Edmondson 36:45

Yeah. Um, so the first gift that comes is really a uh wooden memory box. And I love this memory box. Um and and what I hear from people are they put all the trinkets and things that keep them close to the person they love. I love that. So there's yes, letters. Some people put obituaries in there, some people put a piece of jewelry or something that kind of signifies the bond that you had with that person. And if you ever need a moment to just go to connect to them, you can go open the box and feel that. Um, a fan favorite is the wind chime. I like that one. Um, my wind chime, I live in Florida. Um, and you know, in the in the summer can be really windy here as we prepare for hurricane season. Um, the wind chime talks to me, and I always feel like um I can go out there and be connected to my son. Now, some days I just say to him, Darius, what is it that you want me to know? You've been you've been talking all morning, right? But it really is a place for for me to feel like I'm hearing him. And that um that connection is really interactive. I mean, you know, there's not many gifts that can be interactive, and that really is on the grief journey. So a big fan favorite. Uh, the last one, which um is actually my favorite, um, is a crystal photo keepsake. And so it's a 3D photo. It actually looks like the person is looking at you. Um, it comes on a light stand and it's it's just a beautiful reminder of the face of love. That's what I call it, a reminder of the face of love. And so um we send that on the year anniversary. And I I've had um uh clients tell me they actually sleep with it at night. It looks so real.

Fatima Bey 38:40

Um so there are for the audience there, she only mentioned like three, but there are other things that I I saw on the site. You'll have to go to the site to see. So where is that website where they can find these products and your services?

Kelly Edmondson 38:53

Yeah, our website is thetimelypresence.com. Uh, the timelypresence.com. But uh, even more importantly, our socials um are useful for the grieving, right? We give messages on how you can support yourself or someone you love through the journey. So on Facebook, we are Timely Presence, and on Instagram, we are the timely presence. Um and um good information to just help you on the journey. Um so feel free to follow along. There's no cost for that, and uh a lot of uh real uh grief-informed information there.

Fatima Bey 39:31

All right. Well, Kelly, thank you for coming on. It has been really really good conversation with you. You had a lot to say that I think people are gonna go back and probably replay. Um, because you said some pretty deep things there. And once again, thank you for coming on.

Kelly Edmondson 39:48

Thank you. I wish you all healing on the journey. Thanks.

Final Takeaway And Where To Go

Fatima Bey 39:53

And now for a mind-shifting moment. I want to elaborate on something that Kelly said. She talked about the fact that our teens don't have the resources that they the same resources that we adults have and that children have when it comes to dealing with grief. And I piggybacked on that a little bit during the episode. But I want to take a deeper dive onto why they don't have the realistic resources that they need. One of the things that at least in the US, teens are dealing with death a lot sooner. It's more like adolescence. Think about it. We have mass shootings on a regular basis here in the US. They are dealing with loss on a scale that us adults never had to deal with. We didn't grow up with that. They are growing up with stuff that we didn't have to deal with. So pretending like they're five years old and we need to treat them delicately doesn't work. They already are dealing with stuff that we as teenagers that we didn't have to deal with until we were adults, or at least older. How many elementary schools have lost other students? Lots. How many middle schools? Lots, high schools, even more. So while you're waiting to treat them like a child, they've already begun to grow up. They're already dealing with these things, often in bad ways, because we haven't given them the right kind of attention to these issues. I want to plant that thought seed in your head today. Our teens are not the teens that we were. They're dealing with rough stuff a lot sooner than we ever did, at least in the US. So when you're ready to handle them and you really want to handle them or help them, and I know a lot of you do, I want you to get a reality check. They're not five years old, and they're not the teen that you were. They are dealing with adult stuff in middle school already. So just think about that as you step up to help. You've been listening to Mind Shift Power Podcast for complete show notes on this episode, and to join our global movement, find us at fatimabay.com. Until next time, always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.