Fatima Bey: 0:10

Welcome to MindShift Power Podcast, the world's only podcast built to empower the next generation. I'm your host, fatima Bey the MindShifter, because shaping tomorrow's world starts with conversations we have today. Because shaping tomorrow's world starts with conversations we have today. And hello everyone. Today we have with us Kate Holohan. She is from Southeast England in the UK. She is the owner of Hair Therapy UK and she is a trichologist. How are you doing today, kate? I'm good. Thank you, nice to see you. Nice to see you too. I'm glad to have you here. So I like to dive right in. So tell us what is trichology?

Kate Holohan: 0:50

So trichology is all around the science and the functions of the hair and scalp. So as a trichologist I can help people with hair loss, hair and scalp problems, issues like psoriasis, so basically that bit more than your average hairdresser or anyone like that. So we have a lot of trichologists in the UK. You may find in the US that the dermatologists might cover a lot more hair loss issues and hair and scalp. Oh okay, but it's specifically in the UK. Is hair and scalp specialist?

Fatima Bey: 1:30

I like that. It's a very niche. It's a very niche area of. Is it considered cosmetology in the UK?

Kate Holohan: 1:39

So it's not quite medical, but it's certainly more than if you were hairdressing. So it's kind of in between. So I like to see it as that bridge in that gap between cosmetology and medical.

Fatima Bey: 1:57

Okay, so I want to understand trichology a little bit more. It's the study of this hair and scalp. Why is this even necessary?

Kate Holohan: 2:07

So actually surprisingly so, I've actually been in the hair industry for 25 years, Okay, and I've been in education for 20. And I only became aware of the profession of trichology myself about four years ago oh wow, myself about four years ago. So I didn't even know that there was a specific hair and scalp expert that you could refer people to to help with things like hair loss and hair health. In the UK we obviously have the NHS, the National Health System, and we do get a certain amount of help with different health issues. Hair loss is considered a cosmetic issue, so we don't really get any help with things like alopecia.

Kate Holohan: 2:52

On our health system and so it's very difficult. If you go and see a GP, they often just tell you oh, it's just stress, it will go away on its own, or I'll use Rogaine or Regaine or some kind of chemical and that will kind of fix it. There's not really anyone apart from a trichologist that can give you an accurate diagnosis and they can give you help and they can give you an ongoing kind of treatment plan. And often, especially for people with conditions like psoriasis or eczema, you can get really, really severe to the point where they've got tons of scaling on their scalp and that can restrict hair growth. It can be really, really difficult for people. It can affect their mental health.

Kate Holohan: 3:44

It can affect their everyday day-to-day life and there's not really any kind of other help. So as a trichologist, I can support both GPs and doctors, and also hairdressers, in helping those people find the answers that they need.

Fatima Bey: 4:02

Just as an FYI for those listening who don't know GP is general practitioner.

Kate Holohan: 4:06

Yeah, so doctor, basically.

Fatima Bey: 4:08

Yeah, basically another word for it. Do you also help cancer patients?

Kate Holohan: 4:12

Yeah, I can do. Yeah, so I've also trained in how to cut and fit wigs so I can advise people on things like the type of wig that they might get and where to source that from, the type of wig that they might get and where to source that from, and then I can help just to shape them in, cut them, make them look a little bit more like they used to look. So anyone that's facing cancer treatment or chemotherapy, I can help them with that, advise them on things like using a cold cap, perhaps to help preserve their hair if they're looking to have chemotherapy done, and I can help them before, kind of during and after, their journey.

Fatima Bey: 4:53

So why did you get into once you discovered that trichology exists? Why you got into it? Because you found it interesting, obviously, but why do you keep doing it? Why do you like what you do?

Kate Holohan: 5:13

So I think that there's quite a point in a lot of hairdressers' lives where when you first learn hairdressing, you're so kind of caught up on it's like when you learn to drive you can't really focus on driving because you're like, oh, what gear am I in? You know, am I indicating or have I got my hazard lights on? Who's that person over there? You're so focused on what you're doing. And it's the same with hair. When you first learn hair, just learning how to cut and colour hair and how to talk to people and how to understand what they really want and how to make people happy is quite a lot to deal with. But for those that have been in the industry for quite a while, I know I certainly got to that point where I would see clients come in, you know every week with hair loss and bald patches, scalp conditions, hair conditions and not really have the answers for them.

Kate Holohan: 6:03

I couldn't really help them and I didn't even myself really know how much I didn't know. So when we learn hair, we get to talk very little about the hair and scalp, considering it's what we work with every day. And after studying hair and scalp exclusively with the Institute of Trichology in London for two and a half years, I learned how much I really didn't know, oh wow. So when you become a trichologist you don't have to have any background in hair whatsoever. Some of the people in my class had a physics degree or they had completely different backgrounds or they had suffered hair loss themselves. They had completely different backgrounds or they had suffered hair loss themselves and that had given them an interest in hair loss and then spurred them on to want to help people themselves.

Kate Holohan: 6:52

But for me it was getting to that point in my career in hairdressing where I was seeing it all the time and I didn't really have the answers and I wanted to know more. I'm kind of like a perpetual student, so I never know enough. I always want to know more, learn more, and it was really really interesting so what I've been able to do over the last few years and the impact that I've been able to have on people's lives by being able to help them is just a complete another level. So hairdressing can be really rewarding in itself and education can be really rewarding when you're helping those people gain that confidence, learn more and grow. But to be able to help people with things that literally can affect their life day to day, their mental health- you know, it's just another level for me, so it's really rewarding.

Fatima Bey: 7:50

I think a lot of people. I just want to kind of reiterate what you were just talking about with the mental health piece, because I think a lot of people don't think about how physical ailments or what might seem cosmetic can dramatically affect someone's life. If you won't go to parties because you know you're starting to look bald-headed and you, okay, some people throw wigs on but maybe you don't want to wear a wig, or maybe you can't wear a wig because it bothers your skin. I mean, that's a thing too. So you know, people don't really think about the fact that you might not want to get intimate because you'll have to take your wig off and he's going to see how bald you are. Things like that they can affect your life. They can really stop you from doing things that you really should be doing.

Kate Holohan: 8:34

And I've spoken to people. I've had patients where they've said to me their husband's never even seen their bald patches. Their husband, their family, they haven't shared with anyone the extent of their hair loss. You know, that can be really, really isolating, but it doesn't even have to be a big thing. One of the patients that I had, who was the most affected by the hair condition, just had simple dandruff and yet she said to me if she hadn't have been able to get a scalp treatment done last December to clear away the dandruff, she wouldn't have gone to her Christmas party because she was so self-conscious about flakes in her hair.

Fatima Bey: 9:15

Yeah, and I think that that is something. It's one of those unspoken, one of those silent sufferings. I'm trying to think of a better word, but that's how I can think of right now. It's something that I think people. There's other things too, but people suffer with in silence because they're too embarrassed to really talk about. So I'm glad that you're able to help them and people feel comfortable coming to you. So why did you want to come on the show and talk about this today? What in the world does this have to do with teenagers?

Kate Holohan: 9:45

So I just really do like to talk to young people, especially in different areas of education, so especially with hairdressing. When I started my career in hairdressing, there were quite a few people on my course that were literally told oh, you're not very bright, go and do hairdressing. And I actually found it. I mean obviously it's quite insulting, but I also actually found it really not to be true. And I just I do a lot of kind of talks in the UK as well because we have, where I am in Kent, we have what's called grammar schools, so they're kind of selective schools. You have to sit a test to go to them, so they're expected to achieve a lot academically. Now, for me personally, I was on that path at school. I was told you know, this is your expected path. You go and do A-levels and then you go to university and then you get a proper good job.

Kate Holohan: 10:49

I actually ended up moving out of home when I was 17 and I had to work to support myself and I tried to stay to finish my qualifications. But I found that trying to work earn a living. But I found that trying to work, earn a living, live on my own, support myself and complete a full time academic course was just way too much for me. So in my second year of A-levels I actually ended up leaving and I was very determined that if I was going to leave my course, that I was going to go and study a trade and I was going to go and do something that could add value to my life long term, rather than just I wasn't going to just leave and go and work in a supermarket or something like that. So I and I was very creative and I was doing art anyway for A-level. So I was really creative and I always loved that kind of thing and I never wanted to sit in an office. I knew that I would be bored to tears if I was sat in a desk job all day at a computer, just kind of working away. And so for me to be able to do something really creative, but also something that really dynamic, that was different every day as soon as I got a job in a salon, I absolutely loved it and it was so fun and I felt that I'd almost kind of fell into it by accident because as an academically promising student those kind of opportunities weren't offered to me. They were only offered to the students that looked like they weren't capable of doing what's seen as a higher qualification.

Kate Holohan: 12:27

Now I have still, over the years, gained the same level of qualification. So I've earned certificate in education teaching degree, and I've also earned my level five trichology qualification as well. So I'm almost kind of qualified to degree level. But I follow my own path and I did it in a different way and I did it in a way that I enjoyed a lot more and that suited me a lot more. And yet I'm still highly qualified, and so I think it's really important to just to kind of open those avenues to people. So if you're interested in something, I think it's really unfair to kind of say oh well, academic qualifications are for the cleverer, more able students and vocational qualifications or practical qualifications are for those that are not very bright or for those that are not capable academically. Okay, over the years I've been in education in many different fields. I've worked in colleges, I've taught mature students, I've taught young students. I a hairdresser and also as a trichology clinic owner. I have to have a multifaceted approach. I am my own accountant. I'm my own PR.

Kate Holohan: 14:03

I am my own marketing company. I also run a podcast. I host that. I produce it. I've sourced my own guests a podcast I host that. I produce it. I've sourced my own guests. I do my own accounts.

Fatima Bey: 14:14

That sounds familiar.

Kate Holohan: 14:14

I do my own ordering, I do my own stock. You know, you tell me someone who's got a degree and gone and worked in an office who has to know that much about all those different elements of business. If anything, I have to be smarter than those people.

Kate Holohan: 14:32

So I think it's really unfair to kind of pigeonhole people and say to them that just because they may be academically gifted or they may be good at maths or English, that a vocational qualification or learning a trade should be something that they shouldn't be interested in or that is seen as less than. I think that's really unfair.

Fatima Bey: 14:54

I completely agree. Here in the US and it sounds like it's the same in the UK our youth are often pushed to particular career paths that don't always suit them and sometimes vocational, like you said, or trade you know here, are seen as less than. But the truth is and I was saying to you this before we recorded sometimes it's foolish, and here's an example an auto mechanic might come out making I don't know 75 grand once he finishes he or she finishes their trade school. Another type of engineer, because auto mechanics is engineering. So another type of engineer might come out making a hundred grand. The difference between the two is the auto mechanic might be making 25 grand less a year than the other engineer, but the other engineer is paying more than 25 grand a year back in loans. So really, who's making money? And very often we are pushing our kids towards careers because we think they're the most prosperous. But we have to look at the bigger picture and not just here's your status symbol, and those status symbols are often a lie. They really, really are.

Kate Holohan: 16:05

The thing is like you said.

Kate Holohan: 16:06

You know I could have gone to university and end up with loads of student loans because I went into hairdressing and I then wanted to get into education because when you're in a salon, a lot of the times it's quite, very supportive and it's like a bit of a family and you have your apprentices come in and you want to support and grow them and teach them as well. So when I first got into education, Ivan had worked at a college. They then supported me and paid for me to achieve my teaching qualifications. So again, I got those qualifications. I didn't have to pay anything for that, let alone pay back loans and interest and stuff. So it was really beneficial for me to go about it in that way.

Kate Holohan: 16:54

If I'd have gone to university to learn how to be a teacher, I'd probably still be paying that back now. But because I got into an organization that supported me and supported growth within their kind of whole concept of their culture, they paid for me to do that as part of just so. I think sometimes you can still end up following a similar path, but there's more than one way to go about anything really right, yes, yes, of course.

Kate Holohan: 17:26

if someone's really creative and they're not very academic and they don't like schoolwork, then of course something like hairdressing might be really enjoyable for them and it might be really fun. Hairdressing and cosmetology is one of those industries where you can't do it unless you love it, right.

Fatima Bey: 17:45

And they are very, very happy.

Kate Holohan: 17:47

Hairdressing is one of the industries with the highest job satisfaction Because we have to love it.

Kate Holohan: 17:54

You know you can't go into a salon in the morning and say to your client oh, do you mind if I just pretend to do your hair this morning? I'm not really feeling it today. Can I just sit there and just push a couple of buttons and just not. You know I'm not going to talk to you because I don't really feel like it. Good point, I'm tired today, so can I just do 50%.

Kate Holohan: 18:14

You know we have to be on all the time, we have to be upbeat, we have to be positive. So again, that takes a lot. You know, personally and professionally, it actually takes a lot. We have to be very consistent, we have to be very reliable. You can't phone in sick all the time if you're a hairdresser, because you'll end up with no clients. You cancel on those clients more than once and they won't come back. So there's a lot to it that people, I think, forget. But of course, for someone who's more creatively minded, they could love it it. But I just think it is a really great career. But if you are an intelligent person and you're driven and you're motivated, they're the kind of people that can really take it to another level.

Fatima Bey: 19:05

Right, such as entrepreneurship, like you have. There are many different ways you can do whatever field we want to get into. There's about many different ways you can do whatever field we want to get into. There's about a hundred different ways we can do it, and I love that you bring out that point. So you already named a few. I want to ask you this you already named a few of them, but what are the other reasons why a young person should get into this field at all?

Kate Holohan: 19:28

So, like I said, with trichology, I do feel that having a background in hairdressing can be a real advantage. And it's quite funny because I know other students who study trichology who came from a hairdressing background and they almost felt intimidated by the students that were there with physics degrees and that were professors or medically trained doctors. They felt quite intimidated but although those people did very well on their exams, when it came to actually practically treating the patients which is basically the job once you finish we had the advantage and I actually felt that my background and my experience counted for a lot and it gave me a really strong advantage. And one of the girls on my course who had a physics degree was actually petrified to even touch someone's head, you know, because she'd never done it, whereas I was really confident and I could engage with people and connect with them. So trichology is a very niche subject. There's not a lot of trichologists around, but it is a great area to get into. You can really really help people and make a massive impact on their lives.

Kate Holohan: 20:46

But it's the same with hair as well. It's such a fun, interesting job to get into that it is a really, really good kind of avenue to go for a career, but there's so many ways that you can expand in that. So, especially within hair loss, you can go into wigs and hair systems. I know people that do wigs for TV shows. You know even things like all the period dramas and stuff some quite big, big things. You know even things like Game of Thrones. The wigs on those are epic.

Kate Holohan: 21:22

That's extremely kind of niche, and imagine having that as your job, working for nine months on Game of Thrones. So there's many different ways that you can do it. You can be an entrepreneur, you can be self-employed, you can be employed, you can teach. There's so many different avenues you can go down and there's so much more than just what we would say is just a hairdresser. Right, that's why I love the career as a whole. But we also need to remind ourselves that, obviously, hair loss since covid has been more prevalent. It's been far more talked about. It's extremely common. It's more common than we might think and, as we've already said, it can have a huge impact on people's lives and it is something that a lot of people want to do something about. So becoming a hair loss specialist it's a really good field to get into.

Fatima Bey: 22:19

I love a lot of what you just said. So if there's a youth listening right now who is in the UK, how could they get into trichology? Would they just go to learn to be a hairdresser first and then take it secondarily, or can they go straight to trichology?

Kate Holohan: 22:36

I think it really depends on where they want to come from. So, like I said, having a background in hair is great, but some people get an interest from elsewhere. So it may be they're suffering from hair loss themselves. They may have a friend or family member that had hair loss and they witnessed the kind of support they were getting. I was contacted by a patient recently who has very severe alopecia and she struggled to get a diagnosis and she struggled to get help and she paid a couple of so-called hair loss experts that weren't actually certified, qualified trichologists and she found that she was just paying money and not really getting any answers. So once she met me she actually got a lot more answers and a lot more actual help. She is now interested in studying trichology because that's piqued her interest. So I would definitely say that it's a really good idea to find a certified doctor. You know proper avenue.

Kate Holohan: 23:44

I personally studied with the Institute of Trichology in Harley Street and they are absolutely amazing. So they are top level education. But you don't have to have any background in hair at all If it was something you're interested in. The first element of their course is a six month introductory course, so you can do that, see how you feel you don't have to sign up for kind of three years straight away. Oh, I like that.

Kate Holohan: 24:10

You can do the introduction, get a feel for the course, find out whether it is something that you really are interested in and that you feel that you like the level of work.

Kate Holohan: 24:22

You can stop there if you feel that you've learned enough or you don't like it, or you can then go on and do kind of year one, year two, year, three, so it can be quite flexible. I offer a one day course online which is aimed at mainly hairdressers to give them a bit more of an insight into hair loss and scalp health, give them a bit more confidence around talking to clients. So there are more short courses that you can do as well and smaller bits. And again, the introduction to trichology could be quite good for people that are already in the hair industry, that are thinking about getting into more hair loss. But it's just I mean, like I say, I didn't know until I started the course how much I didn't know about the hair and scalp. So if you like learning and you like kind of biology and scientific element, then I think you would really enjoy it Great.

Fatima Bey: 25:23

So tell us what are the full services that you offer and how can people find you?

Kate Holohan: 25:31

So, as I said, I do offer education. So I do courses online and in person, which is just one day where we talk about most common hair loss, hair conditions and scalp conditions that you, as a cosmetologist or a hairdresser, may be faced with in the salon how to recognize them, how to approach the clients, Because often we don't talk about hair loss with our clients because we kind of don't have the confidence or the knowledge. So we think, oh, we'd better not say anything because we don't really know what to say. So I offer courses for that. In clinic I do a full clinical consultation which I can do over Zoom. Obviously, I prefer to do it face-to-face so I can see a scalp, touch a scalp and I go through proper diagnosis treatment plan.

Kate Holohan: 26:25

I offer hair loss treatments, scalp treatments. So if someone's got a huge amount of scale on their scalp, you'd be amazed at how much I can clear in just one session. It is literally. And it's so satisfying as well because the before and afters is really great. So I do hair loss treatments, scalp treatments. I've got a signature scalp facial treatment which is more of like a pampering it's almost like a facial but for your hair and scalp. So that's amazing I and then I obviously still have clients. I've got clients. I've been doing the hair for 25 years that literally will not let me leave them, so I do a certain amount of hair myself as well, and I've also been. This year. I've been really honored to have quite a few guest speaking roles as well, so I'm going to be speaking at the World Trichology Conference in New York.

Fatima Bey: 27:22

Oh, congratulations, that's awesome yeah.

Kate Holohan: 27:25

So I'm really excited about that.

Fatima Bey: 27:27

Are're gonna put? Are you gonna put that on your website? Um, I should do, yeah, okay now that, now that I made you say it publicly, you have to put on your website yes, it's on my instagram, um, because that's easier, I tend to do that.

Kate Holohan: 27:41

But yes, I should be putting my public speaking on my website. But I've done two kind of. I did a networking event where I hosted and I was speaking, and then I've just done. In Kent we have a wellness festival which lasts the whole weekend, so I did a talk there as well on how to achieve optimum hair and scalp health.

Fatima Bey: 28:03

Nice, so that was really fun.

Kate Holohan: 28:04

It was just so nice to be able to connect with people, share some tips and tricks and things like that, and I love helping people as well and I love kind of working to set people on the right path and educate them. So I'm always kind of available Instagram's, like my main one. Well, obviously, I have my website as well, but I'm always open to people messaging me random questions.

Fatima Bey: 28:30

I can hear your passion and I believe you when you say that you enjoy helping people. I think we can hear that, and for those listening out there right now who I know when I work with youth, I think adults might be surprised at how often I hear from youth want to ask about future career what do you want to do? So many of them come from a place of compassion and they want to do something meaningful. Not, yes, they want to make money, obviously, but many of them want to do something meaningful more than just money, and so I could see why what you do is meaningful when you're making people feel better because you are affecting their mental health, especially cancer patients, that's. You know that one gets me right there. But before we go, I want you to talk to the youth of the world right now and give them any advice you want.

Kate Holohan: 29:20

I think the other thing is to just remember that you don't have to pigeonhole yourself. So if my career is evolved, I retrained in trichology.

Fatima Bey: 29:31

I was.

Kate Holohan: 29:31

I think 42. So even if you do set on one path and you think to yourself, well, this is it now, this is what I'm going to do, don't be closed off to other opportunities or new avenues, or don't be worried about things changing. And certainly don't worry if you choose something and actually when you do it, you think this isn't actually for me, I'm not enjoying it as much as I thought I would, or maybe I want to go off on a different path. I think, especially these days, we have so much information available, so much education available and so much connection. I mean, look at me and you talking across the world. Right, you know, you literally can't. Don't limit yourself and think, oh well, I'm only capable of this, or I've started this now, so I'm stuck with it. You know, just be open to new opportunities.

Fatima Bey: 30:24

My favorite thing to do is just say yes and then figure out how to do it later I agree, try different careers, um, if you're not sure, go into the one you think you're going to like the most, and it is okay if you switch it up. A lot of people do that for some reason. I find that a lot to be true, a lot with chefs. Either people are a chef for a while and they switch to something completely different, or they were a nurse or a doctor and then became a chef. I don't know what it is about my career.

Kate Holohan: 30:53

When I started hair, you know, my whole thing was it's a trade, so I'm learning something useful. But at the same time, if I didn't like it, my attitude was well, even if I only save money cutting my family's hair, you know, I'll save money cutting my husband's hair and my kid's hair. That's still a win for me. And it's the same specifically with chefs. I mean, once you've learned to cook, you've got that skill for life, even if you're not a chef anymore. You know, what you've learned goes with you for life, even if it just means you can make great canapes for your guests, you know, so you're never education is never wasted, even if you don't perceive that you're using it.

Fatima Bey: 31:38

I think that is one of the most valuable things that you maybe have ever said in your life. Education is still valuable. You just have to reapply it, and I think a lot of times people don't recognize that. Well, kate, it has been awesome talking to you and I hope that you listeners got a lot out of this conversation. I think there's a lot. I think there was a lot you could have gotten out of this conversation if you want to, and, once again, thank you for coming on.

Kate Holohan: 32:03

Thank you.

Fatima Bey: 32:05

And now for a mind shifting moment, I want you to recollect what was spoken about today. Kate brought out a lot of really good points, but they go far beyond trichology. Have you accepted or are you accepting what you've been told? Are your limits? Are you only going after what is presented before you? Whether you're a teenager or young adult anywhere in the world, or an adult who's already working or in a career, this applies to you. Are you really doing what you want to do or are you just accepting what you think you have to do? There are many, many, many, many different pathways to whatever it is you're interested in. You don't have to do just one thing.

Fatima Bey: 33:00

If you take nothing else away from this conversation, I want you to know that the freedom you want you actually have. You just have to go for it. Thank you for listening. Be sure to follow and subscribe to MindShift Power Podcast on any of our worldwide platforms and be a part of the conversations shaping tomorrow's world. This podcast is just one branch of the MindShift universe. Explore more at FatimaBaycom and always remember there's power in shifting your thinking. See you next week.