Healing a Generation: Why Adults Must Have Real Conversations with Teens | Fatima Bey

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Jaclyn Gee (00:02.382)

Hello and welcome to another episode of Doom to Bloom podcast. Today we have a special guest Fatima who is going to talk to us about mental health as it pertains to youth and teenagers. Hello. Hello. How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for being a guest. And just before we dive deep into this topic, I always like to ask where my guest is logging in from.

I am in New York State, upstate New York.

Which one is that?

Fatima Bey (00:34.252)

New York, which is in the capital region of New York. Not New York City.

There's a little geography lesson for us. So I alluded to a very general topic that we're gonna talk about with mental health, youth and teenagers. And so you are often known as the mindshifter in your work. So can you start by telling us first if there was a reason if you're comfortable sharing

Yes.

Jaclyn Gee (01:08.554)

if and what the reason was that you decided to start being very passionate about youth and teenagers.

Well, I have been passionate about youth in general my entire life. Even when I was a kid, I was concerned about other kids. When I worked at a daycare, I was concerned about other kids and foster care and their parents. I just was always focused on youth. I used to teach Sunday school and my old church as well for a while. And then I drove a school bus. I worked in schools in different capacities. I've taught math. I was at Job Corps.

a lot of things that I've done in my life that have been youth centered. But in recent times, I've come to recognize that this generation is in trouble and they need a lot of help and they don't necessarily recognize how bad things are for them because they didn't grow up before to see helping to have a contrast.

and see the difference and see the trajectory of where they're headed. And so I decided that I can do something from where I am. I can't change the world all by myself, although I wish I could, but I can do something from where I am. And where I am is I created my own platforms of a podcast so that I could have the discussions that they need to hear any adults who work with them, because believe it or not, there's a large disconnect.

between youth, teenagers and the adult who work with them. So I wanna make a difference in the world. I was put on this earth to do that, I know that, and that's a fact, unapologetically. The biggest difference I can make is to make a difference in those who are gonna be running this world very soon.

Jaclyn Gee (02:59.446)

And when you say that there's a disconnect, what exactly are you referring to between the adult that works with them and the youth?

That's a good question. So very often as adults, we're coming up with programming and ideas that are just not connected to where they are. We come up with programs and ideas that are connected to concepts and ideas of where we think they are or where we think they should be. But they're very often not involved in those decisions, in those conversations. So we don't actually know where they are. The truth is,

The youth today are growing up in a completely different world than what we did. They are dealing with things that we didn't have to grow up with. And some of the stuff we had to deal with growing up, they're accelerated. They're so accelerated now that it does matter. So it's almost like we grew up on earth and they're growing up on Mars. The difference is so tremendous. And also we're not really hearing from the youth and it's not always because

There are adults out there who aren't trying to listen to you. They are. But the problem is we create these situations that don't allow them to be honest. They have to be politically correct in how they say everything. And we can't just let them talk and be politically incorrect and listen. We have to correct them in every, you can't say this that way. You can't say that. you gotta be careful because this is gonna come back at you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's horrible. That doesn't create a situation where anybody wants to open up.

So, and I know this because I actually hear this from youth. They don't feel comfortable speaking up because they know they're gonna be corrected. They're gonna be stopped mid-set and saying, you shouldn't say this, you shouldn't think that. They're gonna be told, talked at instead of spoken with. And those are two different things. And this is, again, I'm speaking in general terms. This isn't true for everyone, but it is true for the majority, I think, or the greater portion rather.

Jaclyn Gee (05:04.134)

And so I really enjoyed the fact, not necessarily that there is the disconnect, but I really enjoyed that that's what you're working to reduce and eliminate. And I guess I can relate in a similar sense. So I'm not in my youth, I guess, anymore. I'm in my late 20s, but I still have adults.

family, parents, whatever, I still have a lot of them that will say, you know, back in my day, had, you know, when I was your age, when I was 28, 40 years ago, I already had a house, I already had a husband, I already had three kids and I, you know, financially stable and this and that and this and that. And then I go kind of through the motions and I say, okay, well, how much was the house back then? How much was groceries back then?

you didn't have to go to education to get a decent paying job. So it's like all of these questions, I can still relate to that disconnect in terms of the comparison between the adults that are supposed to be supporting these youth and teenagers, what their expectations are on the population that it is today, because it's totally different than how it was 20 years ago, 40 years ago, right?

Yes, and I think it's, need, we need, not just want or hope for, but we need for the adults to understand that. And many of them don't. They keep comparing themselves, they keep comparing our youth to the way they grew up, and that is a mistake. Compare them to your humanness, yes, but don't compare anything else because it's not the same. They didn't, they're not growing up in the same culture. They're not.

Growing up, they're growing up with more confusion than we ever did. They're growing up with more fears than any of us ever did. I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, I did not have to worry about school shootings. I didn't have to worry about any time I freaking farted that would end up on social media. I didn't have a fear of every breath that it would get turned into something else.

Jaclyn Gee (07:06.54)

Nope.

Fatima Bey (07:21.954)

That's the world they're living in. You don't think that affects their mental health. You don't think that affects how they behave. You don't think that affects how they see their future or how they act. Hell yeah, it does. Big time. And I think most adults, they downplay it. They minimize it. It is not a minor detail. It is a gigantic King Kong size detail.

Amen.

And as you can tell I'm a little passionate about it.

I like it though, we need more people to be passionate about it in the way that you are. So when you have these conversations with the youth, can you tell us a bit about what the work you do with them is versus what they confide in you about?

Well, I've always been the type of person that people confide in. So what you hear on air is about 10 % of the conversation, honestly. The very long conversations that I have with them on and off the air and some that haven't been on the air yet that you'll hear from, they confide a lot in me. I think I'm like, I like to, someone else put it this way, I'm like that auntie.

Fatima Bey (08:40.802)

that favorite auntie, you might not be able to talk to your mom, but you can talk to that auntie. That's me. I am that for a lot of people, for youth, and I always have been. So they can talk to me about their sex life, just anything. And sometimes stuff I only want to know, but they're comfortable talking to me about it. So the conversations that I have with them are usually in depth. And I'm a seed planter.

Let me just say that the reason I'm part of how I'm the mindshifter is I'm a seed planter. That is who I am. That is who I'm created to be on this farm. I am a seed planter. So what I do is I plant mental seeds. I have conversations with people all the time and I plant seeds. Someone else may come along and water them. Someone else may come along and be the sunshine. And someone else may reap the harvest, but I'm still going to plant the seed.

So when people have conversations with me, adults or not, I often plant seeds and then they'll come back and tell me about it later. And sometimes they don't say anything in the moment because they're still, you know, processing what I said. But when I do talk to youth, I plant seeds all the time. But again, part of the reason I came up with my podcast, which is MindShift Power podcast, by the way, part of the reason I came up with the podcast was because of listening to them.

and hearing what they have to say and noticing the difference. And I used to be a youth coordinator as well and just listening to them. That's the key thing. When we're working with kids, I don't care how old they are, we should, well, people in general, really, it's so important to listen and not just talk at them and think about concepts and ideas without even considering them. That's where we make a mistake.

And this is true with youth. It's also true in running a business.

Jaclyn Gee (10:41.078)

I think it's also true just in conversations with people in general. We kind of assume or set these expectations that you you're an adult, you're to do A, B, and C, you're a youthster, you're going to do this different version of A, B, and C, right? And it just, there's that, that's why I said I really loved how you said that there was a disconnect because that was the perfect word for it all around.

Yeah. the thing is, I know because I've worked with them, I know that there's so many adults out there who really, their heart is in the right place. Their intentions are right and they really want to help this youth, but they don't know how to. They don't know how to connect. And honestly, some of them, it's their positions that don't allow them to do that. Explain what I mean by that. Any school system,

most school system. And again, I'm speaking in general terms because in America, all school systems are not the same, that's for sure. But in general terms, in most school system, real honest conversations are not allowed. You cannot solve a damn thing without real conversation, period in life. So the schools are so bogged down with bureaucratic bullshit and,

political correctness that nothing is getting actually accomplished. Do you know how many kids are going through our system right now and coming out illiterate, freaking illiterate with a high school diploma? That's more common than you think. It's way too common. And we're pushing kids through school that shouldn't be pushed through because they're not learning anything. And guess what they come out to be? Unproductive adults in society. The likelihood of them being an unproductive adult.

is about 90%. That's all my own made up term. think my own made up numbers. I think the numbers are actually higher, but.

Jaclyn Gee (12:45.218)

But then that in turn, that number of quote unquote, unproductive adults of society then turns into what my podcast is about where there's mental health struggles and substance use and housing crisis and right system failure after system failure after system failure. And it's a cycle.

It is. And that's something I really wanted to talk about too, is the fact that mental health is like this broad term that we all use, right? And it used to just only refer to those with mental illness, but now the term has become far more broad to include anything dealing with your mental, right? Yeah. and really it should be because mental health, when you say physical health, it has to do with anything with the physical body, right?

and not just ailments and not just obesity and not just anorexia and not just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's all the physicals. Exercise everything. So mental health has to do with a lot of, a lot of different aspects of the mind. And I think mental health is your mental health is really, I would say pivoting. Not on medications, not on mental conditions, that you can be diagnosed with.

but your actual self-value and self-esteem. Because everything's on a teeter totter in life, and I mean everything. Everything in life is on a, everything in life is on a teeter totter. So when you are more inclined to the negative about yourself, you put more weight on that end of the teeter totter, and you're more likely...

to fall over to the end of a state of bad mental health on the teeter-totter of life because you already got so much weight on the negative. You already feel like you're stupid. You're a piece of shit. You're dumb. You're worthless. You don't have any talents. You're not intelligent. Whatever other words you want to use because they're all in the same bowl. They're all in the same basket. You're already feeling that way about yourself.

Fatima Bey (15:01.184)

So then when something else comes along and you add it to that teeter totter and life happens, so stuff's gonna get added to the teeter totter, the weight on the side of that teeter totter becomes so heavy and so bad that it flips off the good stuff on the other side. Does that make sense?

Jaclyn Gee (15:20.45)

That makes total sense.

Like a Tinder chatter.

Unfortunately, but maybe sometimes fortunately. so what within your role of

of supporting and connecting with youth, what is your role in trying to enhance that self-esteem?

Great question. It's one of my favorite things to do. I get so, I am so fulfilled when I've made a difference in someone's life by making a difference in how they see themselves. So I do it through different ways. You're going to find a lot of episodes of my podcast. And let me back up a little bit. So my podcast is for teens and adults.

Fatima Bey (16:11.99)

Any adults that have to work with teens, that's what the podcast is about. But I deal a lot with career choices, finance, and what I'm going to say is mental stuff. So if you listen to some of the episodes, you're going to hear, actually the episode that's coming out tomorrow, is a woman who grew up with no self value, was in special ed, et cetera, never thought that she would...

make anything of her life or even live to adulthood. And now she's working on a master's and it's it's freaking awesome. By the time this airs that episode will be out. so I'm back to your question. I am making a difference using the platform to put the messages out there that I know people need to hear. Not the messages that are politically correct, not the messages that have buzzwords.

I don't give a crap about that. I don't care about being impressive. I care about being impactful. Impressive, yeah, I'm not impressed by people that are impressive, to be honest with you. It's like, yeah, you're being impressive, but are you impactful? If you're not impactful, you can get out my face. I don't care.

And there is a really big difference.

is a big difference. And some people are both impressive and impactful, and that's beautiful. And there are people like that. That is absolutely beautiful. But if you're not being impactful, then you're not saying anything. And I need to move on and ignore you. And I will. I will absolutely dismiss you. I will not put my energy towards, you know, waste. And the thing is, some of those people that are trying to be impressive instead of impactful could be impactful if they stop trying to be so impressive.

Fatima Bey (17:57.978)

But anyway, making a difference through my podcast is what I'm all about. So you'll find if you listen to enough episodes, I will talk to targeted audiences all the time. I have one episode that's specifically talking just to parents. I have another episode coming up that's specifically talking only to teenage girls. Then I have episodes that are talking to people that are looking to get into technology. You know, I very often, not with every episode, but often I'll have a targeted market, targeted

Sorry targeted audience because that's that's the people I'm talking to because I want to be make an impact on that particular Sect of people right now. So if you listen to the episodes enough Everyone will hear a piece of themselves somewhere even the adults because I have a lot of adults who comment who comment and give me feedback on some of the episodes they're hearing because they could identify with what we're talking about even though we're talking to teens

Because human issues are human issues, regardless of your age. They just look different when you're a teenager. They aren't that different.

I think you should say that one more time.

Humans are humans. I don't remember how I just said it. Humans are humans, regardless of age. Some of those issues just look different when you're a teenager. They really aren't that different.

Jaclyn Gee (19:22.99)

Yay! Snaps and claps for that one.

Well, some of us adults are just physically grown up teenagers. Notice I said physically.

So that actually leads me into this question and maybe it's a bit of a loaded one, but what do you find with your experience? I know you're working to be impactful to youth, but when you're making episodes or you're just connecting and networking with adults who work with youth, what does it look like when that adult, whether they're related or just connected to a youth, what does that look like

if they still have their own childhood trauma or youth trauma, but they're trying to support other youth now. Does that, do you know what I mean? Like how does that impact the youth?

is a very loaded question. it is, but that's okay. I'll dissect it. So there are youth out there. I mean, sorry. There are adults out there who are working with youth with undelt with trauma. That's a fact. And it will always be a fact. Why will it be a fact? Because they may not recognize that it's undelt with. And sometimes dealing with the youth, it will bring up the issues.

Fatima Bey (20:50.43)

Some people are gonna recognize it and deal with it. Some people won't. They'll sweep it under a rug, deny it, pretend it's not there, explain it away in another way, which is unhealthy. And those people who refuse to deal with it or don't acknowledge it will end up hurting themselves or others, which is bad. And they shouldn't be working with you. I'll be honest with you, until they're ready to deal with it.

None. Then you have the other ones. The other ones who have undealt with issues, but they don't recognize it until things pop up and they realize that it's stirring things up in them that if they were settled, wouldn't get so stirred. But then they say, you know what, I need to deal with this. And they find a way to deal with it. And those people just keep working with youth because they're going to do good for them.

Unfortunately, I can't go through and sift through everybody's programs and find them. But those are the facts. But I know on my show, when I interview anybody, adult or teenagers, because teenagers are guests on my show half the time, I make it a point to include them. I ask every single guest if they have any trauma points that I shouldn't bring up. I'm a very blunt and direct person.

My podcast is all about being straightforward and unfiltered. But that doesn't mean going to the extreme of being obnoxious and stupid. Because unfortunately, when people say that sometimes that's what they hear. They're like, unfiltered, you're just going to be obnoxious and a shock jock. No, I'm just going to be real, period end. So that is something that I do ask people because I'm aware that if someone's not really ready,

you can re-traumatize them by putting them on the spot and on the air. And I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to make things better, not worse. So even if it would be the greatest show ever, if it's gonna break them down instead of build them up, I won't do it.

Jaclyn Gee (23:00.62)

What are some examples of how, if you've seen this, which I'm sure you probably have, but what are some examples of how adults actually cause more harm than good when they're working with youth?

great question. So one of the ways, there's several ways, but just to give an example.

All right, this is a good one because it's very accurate and it's a very, very common one. You have a woman that was abused by a man or men.

So she starts mistreating all the boys as if they are her abuser because she hasn't gotten over the fact. She hasn't gotten over some of her abuse issues because there's always the issues that come with it. Nobody is ever okay or normal after abuse. No one. I don't care what you say. I'm fine. No, you're not. We all need help after abuse. Well, now that help looks different for each of us and we have varying degrees of it. Some of us need more help than others, but

And some of us just need a little bit and we're okay, but we all need something, some kind of counseling, some kind of place to heal something. But I have seen that happen where you get these women, and this goes into another subject, but I think it's very relevant and it's something I like to talk about. You get these women who have watched men abuse women, whether it's through domestic violence, whether it's sexually, but they've watched some kind of a manipulation, some kind of abuse towards

Fatima Bey (24:39.786)

young women with men. And that does happen, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean that every single man is an abuser. And it doesn't mean that we should treat every man as if he's the abuser. That's unhealthy, it's imbalanced. It's a mental imbalance when you do that. And if you haven't dealt with your own issues and you see the male species as your enemy, you're still in an unhealthy place. And therefore you're going to start misusing

or another word for that is abusing the men, your coworkers or the male students or whatever your situation is where the males are. And that's just one example. And the opposite example is a man who's been just really let down by women or really just been maybe tricked by a woman or something, cause that happens too a lot more than we think. And so now they start acting like every woman is this bitch that's after him.

So then he starts treating his students that way. He starts treating the youth at the community center. these women are after you. Or worse, worse, is he starts teaching that same mentality to the young boys under him, which just exacerbates the problem. Does that make sense?

It makes total sense. I feel like, unfortunately, definitely, unfortunately, I feel like that happens more often than we even think of for both situations and also just teachings, teachings by adults, again, related or not to the youth, they're teaching things that the adults learned, whether it was accurate or not into the youth.

Yes, I want to add on to that. I think it's so important to point this out. We all teach people around us, period. Good or bad, right or wrong, we all teach people around us. We spread our mentality to everybody around us. And this is why it is so important that we get healed from our trauma, from our issues.

Fatima Bey (26:57.698)

because if we're not healed, hurt people hurt people. And sometimes that hurt isn't intentional, but it still happens. You are hurting people when you are teaching them the wrong things. You are hurting the people around you when you're mistreating them because of your own undealt with issues. You are hurting other people when you're causing them to do actions that are hurtful to themselves. Hurt people hurt people. It's so important.

that we deal with our issues and that we get healed from whatever they are. And if you don't know what they are, you need to see somebody about it. It is really okay to see somebody about it. And some people are not willing to walk into a therapist's office. So go to your honor uncle who's like the person known for wisdom. Talk to them. They might be the person you can go to if you're not willing to go to a therapist, but get there pies one way or the other because we all.

Need it. I don't care who you are and how strong you think you are and how you think you got this. No, you don't. You might have, you might got this after you deal with your issues, but you need to deal with them first because I promise you, I promise you, I promise you, promise you, if you have any issues that you have not dealt with, they are dealing with you. I'm going to say that again. If you have any issues you have not dealt with, they are dealing with you. They are already infiltrating your life.

They are already affecting how you deal with people. They are already affecting your conversations. They are already affecting your relationships. They are already affecting your job.

Fatima Bey (28:38.38)

I just had to say that.

It's like.

Unfortunately, the reality though, it really is. Do you find, again, this may be a loaded question, but it's not intended to be, do you find that a lot of adults, male, female, or otherwise identified?

work with youth because they want to make an impact such as yourself, but on a whole other level they want to want to or think that working with the youth or the teenagers as the adult version of themselves will heal some of their inner child, inner youth wounds or concerns.

Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's probably true for like 90 % of people.

Jaclyn Gee (29:29.772)

And do you that actually helps heal anything or do you think that just exacerbates the problem?

That's not a black or white answer. I think both. It depends on where they are in life. So I think for the greater portion, it does. And I think, I don't know if I say the greater portion, I think maybe half. It does. The other half, it doesn't because that's not the issue. But they're still well-intended and they still work well with youth and they still need to help outside themselves to fix the problem. And just being a better mental.

mentally healthy spot. but yeah, and then there are those, like I said, who don't, you know, as I said earlier, who don't, haven't dealt with their issues. And then they, end up spraying, you know, spraying their shit everywhere, all around them, because they haven't, you know, they haven't, they haven't fixed. You know what? It's like this. They're mentally constipated.

So since they won't go to a therapist and get the help they need, which is where they should take a dump, right? This is a gross analogy, but y'all gonna get it. So instead all the shit comes out their mouth.

It's, yeah, it's true. It's one that nobody will forget hearing.

Fatima Bey (30:57.952)

Yeah, I'm known for crazy analogies.

So.

What are some ways that

I guess ideally healed adults, but, or healing adults, but what are some ways that adults in general can help support youth?

is the present.

Fatima Bey (31:22.424)

I think it's important to number one, listen to them and don't listen to rebut and don't listen and say you're listening, but cut them off mid-sentence. That's not listening. Even if what they're saying is completely jacked up and stupid, listen anyway. Because when you show them that you're listening, that opens the door for them to feel like they can actually talk to you. And if they can talk to you,

Then and only then do you have an opportunity to plant some seeds and make a difference in their lives. So if you really want to make a difference in their lives, stop talking at them and start listening. Now you might give some advice afterwards and you might say, this is what you should be doing. And, but don't just tell them what they should be doing and leave it at that. Throw in some understanding there. Cause nobody wants to talk to somebody that talks at them.

As adults, do you want somebody sitting there pointing their finger at you, talking at you? No, we leave the room. We might physically be there, but mentally we already left the room.

Or we'll tell you where to go and how quick to get there.

Where you shove that, Right, or we're just like, get out of my face, shut up, blah, blah. You know, and we do that as adults. Why would it be any different when you're a teenager? When you're still discovering and you're still learning. By the way, that doesn't ever stop. But it's not just teenagers, it's all of us. But it's important to listen to them first. And even if what they're saying is crazy and stupid, everything they didn't say, everything they said couldn't be crazy or stupid.

Fatima Bey (33:04.866)

reaffirm the parts that are true before you go into what they should do and telling them off and give them, you know, or give them your advice. Sometimes you're not telling them off, you're just giving advice, but, or give them your opinion on things or telling them what you think they should do and da da da. And there's nothing wrong with that, but don't let that be the only thing you spew out. Listen first, identify or relate to the parts that they said that you can understand. And if you don't understand, be honest and real about that.

Real, you know, as they always say, real, recognize real. Nobody wants to talk to somebody who doesn't understand them and just talks at them. That's like the best way to get them to completely tune you out. If you want to be supportive, start by listening. There's other things you can do after that, but I would say that's the biggest start.

And what are those other things after to actually start listing?

After you start listening, number two, reaffirm or relate to the parts that they said that are true. Don't lie, don't overfluff. So if they said they were feeling bad about X, Y, Z, say, understand why you're feeling bad, but here's the way you could think about it instead. There's nothing wrong with that. And they might actually listen. And even if they don't act like they're listening in that moment, which teens often won't, they might go back.

and meditate on it later. And actually you might change your mind. I've had that happen to me a lot where teenagers kind of look at me like I'm crazy when I'm telling them something. But then later on they come back to me and say, you know, you were right. And I told so-and-so XYZ because you told me this. And so that tells me that it was working. Don't look at reaction as much as you look at results.

Jaclyn Gee (34:55.158)

It's almost like they need that processing time to be able to sit with what they've been told, reflect on it, and then make their decision on how they feel about it.

Remember how human you are, not as a teenager, but just as a human being. Do you accept everything everybody tells you all at once? No. Nope. Not unless you're an airhead and most of us are not airheads. So we don't, we have to process it first. As teens, they are no different than an adult in that they need to process it first. Give them that space to process. Don't shove it down their throat and then be mad that they didn't.

didn't come out the other end already. It's not going to. They need to process it first.

Jaclyn Gee (35:42.466)

What are some ways that I think you've honed in on how adults can connect and support youth in a meaningful way? Do you have any tips or tricks on how fellow youth or teens themselves can support other youth and teens in a positive, meaningful way?

Yes.

Get this with it.

There's so many ways, but I think one of the biggest ways that teens just don't think about it, be honest. So often we're putting on a mask and we're being fake as hell because we think we need to be. And I'm talking as if I'm a teenager right now. We're being fake as hell.

So we can Everybody as a human does that though. It's not just teens.

Fatima Bey (36:38.134)

No, you're right. You're right. But in this generation, that looks different because it plays out on social media more than anything else. And that's different than the way we grew up. be real instead of being fake. And I'll tell you why. So many of the teenagers out there think that they are the only ones who are going through what they're going through. And when we are honest and we are transparent,

Very true.

Fatima Bey (37:08.608)

It makes other people feel better about themselves because they know they're not the only one. And that can be a self-esteem builder. So that matters. You're just being transparent and you don't know who's looking at you. You don't know how many eyes are on you. You don't know how many people are noticing that you are standing strong through what you're going through and that you are still moving forward even though everybody's making fun of you and you're gonna go do what you wanna do.

I think that's so crucial as a teenager, in any youth.

Yes. Well peer pressure is there. Peer pressure doesn't stop when you're a teen. It just feels stronger when you're a teen, I think. I think it feels stronger when you're a teen. But the peer pressure doesn't stop because look how many dummies are on social media now doing stupid stuff that they wouldn't be doing if they didn't feel pressure to do it. We all thinking about somebody and something right now because it's true. know, that peer pressure is, it matters. And I think if more of them are just honest with each other.

they'll find that they have more support than they realize.

And support doesn't necessarily have to mean professionals.

Fatima Bey (38:19.214)

No, some of the best support doesn't come from professionals, actually. And I'll tell you why. There's a lot of professionals that act like clinically trained robots, and that doesn't help anybody. The professionals that I see who are the best at what they do, they're human in their approach to things. They're still professional, but they're also human. And if you have that combination, then you're great. But everybody doesn't have that around them. You know, I do, I actually have a whole episode about that.

about the fact that some youth don't have any adults that they can really talk to within systems. And a lot of our systems don't work. Some do, but a lot of them don't. So your support could be your mom's friend. Your support could be your friend's mom. Your support could be aunt or uncle. Your support could be somebody at church, your synagogue, your mosque.

could be somebody at a community center. There's so many different ways of getting support. And most of the time we have to actually seek it out because it won't usually come to us.

Can I throw in my two cents on how I, a professional in the mental health and social science field, make that connection? So it's a little different for me only in the sense that I work specifically only with adults. So it's 18 plus, but the large majority of those that I work with are.

Probably 30 to 70 ish. So the reason I to give my two cents on this is because like you've been saying this entire session is everybody is human and everybody has their own ways. But at the end of the day, everybody is human. So what might work for building rapport and the connection with adults might also be the same thing. And it more than likely is for youth.

Jaclyn Gee (40:24.12)

So my perspective on it, when I say I get a new client on my caseload and I'm trying to house them, but they're also struggling with addiction or mental health or legal involvement, I, how do I say this? I don't take off my professional hat per se, but I just get down on their level. Like many professionals that I see in my field don't swear, they don't,

dress necessarily to blend in. don't use humor or sarcasm. They're just very by the book, very, as you said, rigid and robotic, right?

E-trained robots, yes.

Yes. I, I mean, I'm not a clinical person by any means, but I wear jeans and a t-shirt to work. I wear jeans and a hoodie to work. I, you know, I wear leggings and a nice shirt. I, I don't stand out as a professional to them. I blend in with them. And the other piece that I would offer and feel free to correct me if this is off the beaten path, but

The other part that I use is I get down on their level with their language and their emotions and how they talk about things. I think with adults, it might be a little different in the sense of generation changes like you've noted, but with the adults, when they're coming onto my caseloader, they're doing an intake and might be assigned to me as their worker. I feel like with the population that I work with, given that they struggle with

Jaclyn Gee (42:05.132)

you know, legal involvement, addiction, mental health, I cuss, I don't do it often, but I do do it. And I do kind of use the slang in the terms that they use. Because that forms that report forms that therapeutic report and that connection and that relationship instead of being a robot as a professional. And I think, but I mean, you to it, you go.

well no, finish your statement.

I was just going to say, I think that might be a little different in terms of youth because there's, I think there's nowadays heavier expectations on youth than there was years ago, but also the generational changes between the adults I work with now versus the youth and what they're going through now. But those are just some tips and tricks that I use to build rapport as a professional that isn't a clinical robot or very, very by the book.

Yes, and those very by the book people.

most you if you are like that, please don't work with youth. Please stay far away from youth because they are not going to talk to you. And the thing is, because they just see you as a clinically trained robot and not a human they can relate to what we all look for when we want to confide in someone is related ability. And a lot of what you just said was relate ability in dealing with youth. I think it is important everything you just said about

Fatima Bey (43:38.028)

you know, being down on their level. What that, what I, the way I like to word that is relatability. Well, actually, relatability is a little bit different because if you're going to talk to me about an issue that you're dealing with, and it's also an issue that I dealt with, I'm going to talk to you about my issue. That doesn't mean I need to go to the extreme of telling you all my business. That's the reason why people are clinically trained to be robots.

Don't tell anybody anything personal, don't get personal. And basically what they're telling you is don't be human, but you're human. is the very thing that's going to help them open up to you so that you can take all that training that you did get that is correct and how to help them heal and actually have it work. It's not going to work if they don't open up to you and you just are acting like a robot or you're talking at them instead of being relatable. You tell me that you can relate to me. I am now listening.

I am now listening. That's how we are as human beings. you don't necessarily have to, and here's the thing, you don't always have to use their language to be relatable. You could have someone who grew up in the inner city, who's black and grew up in the ghetto. And someone who grew up in white suburbia, completely unrelated to each other, right? Different backgrounds, having a conversation. And that

old white lady who grew up in suburbia happened to go through the same thing that this black child in a ghetto grew up in. I'm saying those things because those are ideally what we think of as opposites, right, in our society. But that old white lady can find that one thing that she can relate to with that young black child and say, I went through this too, but be honest about all the parts that don't relate.

Like, I don't know what it's like to do this. I don't know, but I do know what it's like to this. And then focus on the part that you can relate to. That child might still listen and be like, okay, she's cool. I can talk to her. You don't have, and she won't have to say it. She could say it in her white suburban way. She doesn't have to use street lingo, so to speak. You know, it's focusing on what you can relate to and all the other stuff will fall in the background. If you really think about it, that's how we work as human beings.

Jaclyn Gee (45:59.712)

It's very true. The other kind of burning question, which I feel like

could be a whole episode on its own, but just the analogy that you use of the Black child and the old white woman connecting on whatever level it was that they both experienced, do you find in the work that you do and the experience and the connections that you make, do you find that there's...

Kind of a, I don't even know what the word would be, like a click or a.

Jaclyn Gee (46:39.692)

or like the youth will gravitate to.

Jaclyn Gee (46:45.964)

almost like their own culture or their own ethnic background or their own religious background versus anybody else.

Yes, I had a whole episode on this, my back podcast actually, with a therapist, because we discussed this. It is an issue specifically for Black and Brown children in our school systems to have literally nobody they can relate to in the the adult staff. And that is a huge problem, because most of time, they're just not going to open up to these people who are completely out of sync with them, or at least they think they are.

and who are most of these adult staff in the schools.

White folks who don't understand. You want an honest answer? That's it. Who don't understand because that's not been their experience. didn't grow up. You don't understand what it's like to grow up a person of color in this country and it is different. Whether people like to admit it or not, it is in fact different because of many reasons that are ingrained in our culture. But it matters. But again, I want to point out

Just because someone is white doesn't mean that they can't relate. They can, but they do have to prove that they can first if they want the people of color to actually see them as relatable. Because I've met people like that, and I know people like that who are very good at what they do. They happen to be white, but they do relate on many levels, and they're honest about what they can't relate to. People can deal with that if you're honest. But if you pretend, if you live in a world of...

Fatima Bey (48:26.338)

pretend and you pretend like we're all the same and we all grew up with the same experience. You're dumb. We just see you as dumb and we're not talking to you. Period. And that might hurt some people's feelings, but it's the truth.

Jaclyn Gee (48:42.388)

It's definitely the truth. And I kind of had a sneaking suspicion about that in the States. And that's exactly why I asked you what type of adults are supporting these youth because I assumed it was white individuals.

We need more, we need more people of color into our systems to be honest with you, but color is just one, detail. There are other things like if you are gay and you're dealing with things that are related to your homosexuality, you want to talk to someone who you feel can understand your struggles. If you are Asian and they do have a different experience than the rest of us, I am not Asian.

but I do understand that much. They do have a different experience than the rest of us. You might want to talk to somebody who can understand where you're coming from or not even just Asian, foreigners, because that's a big population who are first generation. Their parents are from some other country, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Sudan, wherever their parents are from. They have a strong, different life at home that is very different than what they're experiencing in school. There are nuances with that.

And there needs to be more people that understand that. I work a lot with foreigners and I have a big heart and passion for foreigners. when I say that, I'm not just talking out of my ass. I'm talking from experience. There are other elements to each one of us besides race. And we all wanna have somebody that identifies with us. And that's why people running around talking about inclusion, inclusion, inclusion. Some people go overboard with it.

But there is truth to it though. There is truth to it. We do need more representation within our systems. And some people are out there trying to get that representation and there's not enough of us with different kinds of representations applying and trying to be in these systems. And we're needed because people want to talk to somebody they can relate to.

Jaclyn Gee (50:48.248)

How do you think, I mean, if possible, I guess, how do you think that there could be that change to have different representations in all of the systems?

Listen to my podcast, Youth, and try new careers that you don't normally get into so that you can spread out and we can even out the playing field. Get more of these youth into the, get more the high school and college age youth to move on to new careers.

We have a lot of people going for nursing, which is a beautiful thing, nothing wrong with nursing, not enough people going for doctors. We got a lot of people going for real estate brokers, but not enough for other parts of real estate. Not enough home inspectors, not enough, you know, not enough diversity in other fields. And it's like, okay, you black in Utah. you have to play basketball. No, you don't. Why don't you own a team instead of playing on it?

There's different things that we can do. We need to think differently so that we do get that variety. Because what happens is these systems will keep directing the kids in the same directions. this school over here full of Black and Brown children, we're going to have you guys do all these. We're going to push you towards domesticated careers. But the white suburbia, we're going to push you towards corporate and ownership careers.

That's a real thing, y'all. That is a real freaking thing.

Jaclyn Gee (52:19.447)

It's systemic.

Absolutely. And there are people out there trying to change it. So I'm not saying that that's true everywhere anymore, but it's still true enough. And if you want to make a change, that's where we need to make the change at the high school and college level to start getting people to go into other careers, present other careers to them that they weren't thinking about. You know, it's still their choice at the end of the day, but don't think, don't make them think that they have these five choices and that's it. Point them towards ownership instead of

just being a worker. And everything's not gonna be in order, we can push more people towards that.

think that also can be spoken to genders. Yes. Right? Like the vast majority of females, at least up in Canada, not managers, not bosses, not CEOs, they're nurses, they're social workers, they're underpaid, like all of that. So that partnered with the colour is even more of a concern, right?

Yep, yep, and that's not good. And we need more, for example, the construction field. my God, we need more women in that. And I don't just mean construction workers. There are thousands of positions within the, when I say construction field, that's very generalized. That we need more women for men.

Jaclyn Gee (53:49.07)

Up in Canada, I can very accurately say this. Almost every single time I drive by road construction, how they have the stop and slow signs and they alternate them, I can almost without a doubt say almost all of them are females holding the sign rather than the ones operating equipment or doing any other position within that. They're almost always the sign holders.

You know what I would say? I think I believe you. I would say if you are looking to make a change, pay attention to the positions around you. Look for what's not being fulfilled and then try to fulfill it. So I always like to say, look, look for the holes in the Swiss cheese because they are everywhere. Everywhere you look at Swiss cheese, there's always some holes you can find.

So what's missing when you look at a room full of executive? What's missing? Women and people of color.

When you look in a room full of construction workers, what's missing? Black men. When you look in, I'm just making up examples, but when you look in a room full of this type of field, what do you see? What do you not see? Not just what do you see? What do you not see?

Men, people of color.

Fatima Bey (55:12.942)

Yeah. It depends on what fields you're talking about, but yeah. And it's like, look at that and then say, ah, we need more black and brown folks in this area. We need more women in this area. We need more this and that, whatever it is, we need more Asians over here. We need more foreigners over here. We need more, you know, we can talk, go on and on with different details, but whatever it is, take a look.

Take a look.

Usually I ask for like words of wisdom or support or encouragement, but I feel like this whole episode has been that. So I'm a bypass that because you hit on all of them. But I will ask you to continue these conversations, to listen to these conversations. Where can we find you?

Well, my website is Fatima Bay.com. That's my name. F-A-T-I-M-A B as in boy E-Y.com. On there you can find everything you need to know about me. I am, my podcast page is there as well. My podcast name is Mind Shift Power Podcast. I also have a YouTube channel. It's called Fatima Bey the MindShifter.

You can find that on YouTube as well. And honestly, you can Google my name. If you Google my name on the whole first page of Google usually. So.

Jaclyn Gee (56:49.646)

I love to see that.

Just Google my name, you'll find out everything you need to know. The other thing that we did not discuss that you will find on there, so I'm going to say it now, I'm a dual entrepreneur. So I do have another business, it's called My Abishai. I make and design wedding gowns. Yep, completely unrelated or so it seems. So you'll find a lot of stuff about that as well. I used to be on the radio. You could find those episodes on my YouTube channel.

and I write for a magazine called Blessings Magazine. You can find that online as well. And yeah, so go to FatimaBey.com and you basically find everything you need to see.

Maybe it sounds like set aside a couple hours to go through everything though.

I don't know, but yeah, you will. You'll click on one thing, you'll find other things, you'll click on more and find others, because people tell me they do that. And I'm on every social media platform too.

Jaclyn Gee (57:53.944)

Amazing. And is the social media platform just your name or is it?

It's Fatima Bey, the Mindshifter on Facebook. It's Fatima Bay on everything else.

Consistent I like it

Yeah, well, like, I think it's Fatima Bay underscore on Instagram. The links are all on my website. The links are on my website. But like even on Pinterest, it's Fatima Bay the Mindshifter. So it's either Fatima Bay or Fatima Bay the Mindshifter everywhere.

Amazing. Well, I wanted to thank you again, Fatima, for being a guest and having the conversation about youth and teenagers and mental health. I think it's obviously a much needed conversation and you're doing incredible, impactful, but also impressive work. And I think more people need to follow along in your shoes for the work that you do and the impact that you make.

Jaclyn Gee (58:55.118)

So thank you for guessing and thank you for doing what you do. And I believe I follow you on a lot of socials, so I'm gonna go double check, but I wanna stay connected if possible to see where your journey takes you and to see where your impact leads you.

I did want to ask, thank you. I did want to add one little thing for listeners. If you want to hear my impact, listen to episode two of my podcast. A young girl talks about my impact.

Okay, episode two. All right, let's make sure we note that so we can listen to it. And again, thank you so much for just being you, being a guest and for the work that you do. I do truly hope that we can stay connected.

Yes.

Fatima Bey (59:47.086)

Absolutely, and thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. This space is all things mental health, whatever population or gender or any other diversity, it's all welcome here. I'm just really honored that you opened up the doors of my podcast to be this specific population because it's not talked about enough.

Yes, I'm glad you allowed me the opportunity to plant some more seeds and some more brains.

You've planted lots of seeds. And to you Fatima and to the listeners, I'm sending you lots of love and lots of light.