Meet The Host And Guest

Fatima Bey 0:04

It's Mind Shift Power Podcast, the number one critically acclaimed podcast where we have raw and unfiltered conversations that shape tomorrow. I'm your host, Fatima Bay, the Mind Director. And welcome everyone. Today we have with us Tara Hodgson. She is out of Alberta, Canada. She's an author, and most importantly, she's a teacher. The thing about teachers is they always see more and differently than the rest of us. And we're going to get into a really deep conversation from her perspective. How are you today, Tara?

Tara Hodgson 0:42

I am really good. Thank you for having me.

Fatima Bey 0:44

And thank you for coming on. I'm looking forward to this conversation. So tell us, why are you here today? Why are you on this podcast?

Tara Hodgson 0:52

Yeah, I have been told that I talk about really difficult subjects. Um and uh when I read the information about this podcast, it just uh felt like such a great fit because you like to tell the truth and have difficult conversations because they matter. So it was a perfect fit for me, and I was very excited to be accepted on.

Fatima Bey 1:15

Well, I'm very glad. Um let's dive right into it.

Tara Hodgson 1:20

Let's do it.

The Hidden Pressure Teens Carry

Fatima Bey 1:21

So you're in the classroom every day. What are chains dealing with internally that parents have absolutely no clue about?

Tara Hodgson 1:29

I would say, well, there's bazillions of things. However, if I have to pick just one, I think the the mental burden that kids are carrying, um, pressure specifically, I think there's a lot of pressure in the classroom, there's a lot of pressure from parents, and then there's the added complexities of this whole new world of pressure that's happening online. Um, and I think that would be the number one thing that kids that I am seeing kids are dealing with.

Fatima Bey 1:58

So when you say mental burden, you named two things. The online pressure, which is not a minor detail. It's a very, very big deal. Um, and can you take a little deeper dive into that?

Tara Hodgson 2:14

Yeah, I think with what I describe phones as specifically, is that they have become like the main character of kids' lives because their world does revolve around them so much that this device now is such a critical piece of your identity. And I think that comes with a lot of pressure because now you are witnessing, you're constantly witnessing other people's lives, you're constantly witnessing people's highlight reels, um, the whole feeling of FOMO, fear of missing out, which I think is a very relatable team feeling, regardless of what generation you grew up in. But now having constant connection with what your peers are doing makes that FOMO so much more prevalent because you're constantly seeing what other kids are doing. And if you're not included, now you're witnessing, you know, the play-by-play of those events that you're not included in. Um, comparison culture, again, very common with teens, regardless of the generation they grew up in. But now having phones with again the highlight reel, the edited pictures, the AI, the, you know, you're only seeing such a small blip of people's lives, but you're comparing what you are experiencing with that small little blip that you're seeing. Um, all of these, like very real, very, you know, again, like things that span generations have just become so much more loaded because of these devices that are constantly in kids' back pockets.

Fatima Bey 3:47

What do you say to the kid who understands everything you just said and they can kind of see it a little bit? How do they put the phone down?

Tara Hodgson 3:58

I think that's, you know, it's tricky because, you know, it is such a form of currency too, like to fit in. I know the kids who don't have a phone, they don't feel like they fit in, or they feel now like they're so disconnected from everything else. I will say, I read this quote and I wish I remember where I saw it because it resonated with me. And I've had the conversation with some of my students about it as well. But it said, this is the first generation of kids who will grow up experiencing more of other people's memories than their own. Um, and I was like, oh, like that just makes me feel so sad. Um, and I think once kids start to see that, like, why are we spending so much time watching other people when you could be out and doing the things? And, you know, it's our whole job as a teenager is to go out and experience and make mistakes and you know, make messes and you know, just learn and experience and do things that you aren't gonna do when you're growing up that now we're like, ugh, we're not, we would never do that. But like that's the fun of being a kid, and that's kind of their job. And I feel sad for kids that they're missing out on the opportunity to make their own memories.

Fatima Bey 5:12

That is a really, really valid, valid point. Um, living living through somebody else's memory. Some of them are more interested in following Cardi B than they are figuring out their own lives. That's a problem.

Tara Hodgson 5:29

It is.

Fatima Bey 5:30

Whether it's Cardi B or whoever, whoever is the person that comes on next. You know, it it's whoever the next artist, next entertainer the n, the next famous person is, following them instead of figuring out your own life. What does that do to what does that do for their future?

Tara Hodgson 5:48

Yeah, and I think like for myself, when I look back on those teen years, like, oh, for sure, there are things I regret and things that make me like, eh, like, why did I do that or why did I say that? But also there's so many memories that I just look back at so fondly and the things that my friends and I did, and you know, where we went, and oh, I don't know, all the fun that I had, and there's so many kids who aren't going to get that. Um, but I do think there has to be a balance because, you know, yeah, they're gonna follow their favorite, you know, influencer, artist, whatever, but you need to not get so absorbed in the life behind your screen and focus more on what life you want to live. And I think that's where kids have a hard time finding that balance.

Fatima Bey 6:34

Let's talk about that a little bit deeper. For the teenagers listening to this right now, who are, I would say you are really a victim of the society that us adults have left you that you're forced to grow up in.

Tara Hodgson 6:48

Yeah, I would agree. I think that like when I think about it, it's not the kids' fault. Um, and I've actually had so many parents and you know, my own peers say, I am so glad that there wasn't social media when I was younger. But then they proceed to immediately hand their kids a phone with social media. Well, that's that's not really fair. So if you know and you recognize that that's not a life you would have wanted for yourself, why are you giving that life to your kids? But also, like these phones, the devices, uh, the social media apps, they have been designed very specifically by these tech companies to be addictive and to be enjoyable and to lure you in. So the kids are kind of, yeah, they're just a victim of this design and of this society, of these companies and these people who want you to continue to follow them and to use these apps more and more and more so that they can make money.

Fatima Bey 7:46

I'll be honest with you. I grew up in the 80s and 90s. And I would still consider myself an 80s kid. Yeah. It was obviously I'm a lot older than the teens. I'm the same age as most of their parents. So, you know, I grew up in a different era. I would say that even though we try to portray ourselves as we were the best generation, every generation does. And it's bullshit. But it sometimes we remember things in pink clouds instead of what they really were.

Tara Hodgson 8:19

Nostalgia. Nostalgia is a beautiful thing, right?

Fatima Bey 8:22

Yeah, and it's also full of lies. So we we weren't perfect either, and to a certain degree, we were victims of the big companies as well. I'm getting I'm getting to a point with this. So we grew up with you, ooh, you're not cool unless you wear Joy Dash, or you if you have a guest handbag or guest jeans or uh British night sneakers. I mean, this is all old stuff now. But you know, you can rename those things with different names today, but it is the same thing. Telling us in our instance it was magazines. In today's instance, it's the internet. But the difference is that uh it's far more intensified for our teens now.

What Phones Do To Your Future

Fatima Bey 9:06

Where what does their future look like? For the teens listening, I want you to talk to them and not just me. For the teens listening right now, what does their future look like if they don't make a decision to not just follow along with being as digitally connected as the whole industry wants them to be?

Tara Hodgson 9:27

Honestly, I think at some point most people will look back, most of this generation of kids, I think they'll look back and feel sad. You know, like we all, like we said, nostalgia, right? You look back on your youth and all of these things, but if they don't have anything to look back on, or their main memories to look back on are them, you know, sitting around with their friends or alone, looking at a screen, I really do feel there will be a lot of regret. And that's sad because, you know, yes, we all have regrets, but to look back and wish you had done something differently, to wish you had lived more fully, I guess. Yeah. I do see that happening. And actually, a lot, like I was reading a book with my own son called The Amazing Generation, which is all about tech. And there was a bunch of quotes from people in their 20s who look back now and really are regretful that they didn't, you know, go out and experience the things and they spent hours and hours and hours behind a screen instead of you know out with their friends and out, you know, biking or the going to the mall, the movies, whatever it is, going to parties. And that already I'm seeing that from you know, people who are growing up. And so I think that's going to be a common theme as more of this generation grow up. And you know, as we all get older, we see things differently and they're gonna recognize how much they missed.

Fatima Bey 10:57

Yeah, and that that bothers me so much because I do care about the generation. I mean, that's why I'm here in the first place, and I want what's best for them. And unfortunately, we can't make them do anything, we can't make them make their own decisions, they have to make them themselves. And I I just want them to see how how much they're being controlled, quite frankly, by people that don't give a crap about them. I'm not talking about their parents or the people immediately around them. I'm talking about the adults who created the world they're growing up in. So,

Anxiety, Depression, And No Escape

Fatima Bey 11:32

what is how does all of this affect mental health?

Tara Hodgson 11:35

It I feel like everything's so intertwined, and that was the reason why I became so passionate about this subject, is I noticed all of these mental health issues increasing like exponentially, and I couldn't figure out why. And the common theme came down to smartphones. Um, kids are isolated a lot more because they're choosing again to be on their screens, they're exposed to things they are not ready to be exposed to. Their attention spans are eradicated, essentially. Social skills, um the just like need to, you know, check online, constantly get that dopamine hit. All of these things kind of compile, and I'd see a lot more anxiety, um, depression, suicidal thoughts. These are like they have quadrupled. I can't even really put a number on it. But whereas they used to be such a minor, you know, issue, again, as teens, people always have dealt with depression and suicidal thoughts and anxiety, but the prevalence of it has ballooned to the point where it's just so scary to see these kids struggling. And yeah, it all came down to the fact that there's never an escape. So, like bullying, for instance, bullying is never gonna go away. Um, it's always been around. It's it doesn't matter if you're a teen, a kid, an adult, bullying exists. However, when I was a teenager, if things were difficult at school or I was being picked on or whatever, I could go home and I could be free for that period of time. I'm at home. I'm free, I'm disconnected, I can take a break from it and remove myself from that situation entirely. And now kids don't get that opportunity anymore because it follows them home in their back pocket. So now not only are they having that hard day at school, but they're coming home, they're being bombarded on Snapchat, on TikTok, or whatever the platform is. It doesn't go away. It's happening throughout the afternoon, the evening. I have had kids come to school and say that they've been told to kill themselves at three o'clock in the morning over Snapchat. Yeah. Like this, it just never goes away. So obviously that's going to affect someone's mental health. How can you constantly be connected to, you know, this terrible, you know, bullying situation or whatever it is, you never get that break to be free.

Fatima Bey 14:10

I I want to piggyback off that. You're absolutely right. Um, I want to piggyback off that a little bit and um and say this directly to the teenager who's listening who's growing up, who's Gen Alpha, and growing up right now in today's society. Part of the issue that you are having, part of the issue why you feel so bad about yourself, part of the issue you have suicidal thoughts. Okay, part of the reason why those things are happening. Yes, it's because you are constantly online and being bombarded with images and data. But the problem with it is that you're believing it. You are actually believing the bullshit served to you on a platter on Instagram, on a website, wherever. You are actually believing what's put in front of you. How can we, Tara, how can we get the teens that are listening right now to begin to think differently about what they see online? Because ideally as adults, we like them put the phone down, go outside and play ball and do something not digitally connected. But the truth is, this generation, just literally, half of them literally don't even know how to do that because all they know is how to be connected to something digital because they've been doing it since they were two. So how do you expect them to just put something down? That's not realistic. What is realistic for how they handle information, how they handle everything they see online?

Tara Hodgson 15:45

Okay. Um, so I would say to anybody who is, you know, seeing these things online and struggling with your anxiety and your mental health or whichever, understanding what the algorithm is, I think is extremely important because if you are sad, if you are depressed and you do pause on a video that is on TikTok or Instagram that is showing sad or depressed content, they're going to continue to feed you that material over and over and over again, which undoubtedly is probably going to make you more sad, more depressed. Um, I know self-harm content, suicide content is very common towards teens. So if you're seeing these things, open communication, and which is like the number one thing in my whole platform, is so important. And whether that's your parents or not, because not everybody's comfortable having these conversations with their parents, and I totally get that. Parents, teachers, aunt, uncle, grandparents, cousins, older siblings, older friends, whichever, talking about it is so important because I see too many kids isolating when they're struggling. Yeah. And isolation is going to make it so much worse. It really does. Even if the last thing you want to do is leave your room, turn on the lights, go outside, talk to somebody, that's probably the best thing that you need to do.

Fatima Bey 17:07

I want to add this. I'm gonna be real blunt. If you're listening right now and you're a teen, and it I understand we, like I said before, we adults want to tell you to put the phone down, but we know that that's not easy to do because it's what you've known your entire life. But let me also tell you this: I want to give you a little mind shift here, a little thing to think about. You are the perfect victim. You are the perfect tool, you are the perfect little cheat that they can play with. When you, when she talks about algorithms, when terrorists talk about algorithms, they are set in place for a reason. The stuff that's put in front of your face on Instagram, on TikTok, or whatever the next platform is, it's put there for a freaking reason. And if you're a gamer, they do it in the gaming industry too. They just do it in a different way. That stuff is put in front of your face for a reason because they want you to spend the rest of your life trying to spend your money, your time to live up to something that isn't even freaking real in the first goddamn place. And it it just is it just infuriates me. You are being the perfect little sheet that they can do whatever they want. They they control you. So as long as you keep that phone in your face, as long as you keep that device in your face, and you are allowing all of that, I don't mean you need to put it down completely, but when you allow all of that to sit in the couch and living room of your mind to stay in there, you are being the perfect little fool they want you to be. And I know none of you want to be little fools, and most of you really aren't, but you're allowing that. I just, I just had to say that. I went on my little rant.

Tara Hodgson 18:44

Oh, yeah, I agree because it is like those tech companies, they know exactly what they're doing. All of these apps are modeled off of um slot machines, which are the perfect addictive tool. So they are manipulating kids into becoming addictive because then they have you for the rest of your life. Um, and I don't think any teens want to be manipulated. I think, you know, you want to have free will and be independent and be a leader and by following along with what these tech companies want, you're not doing that.

Fatima Bey 19:17

I'm gonna give you a prime example right now, a realistic one that half the audience can relate to. You don't know what you want to do for the rest of your life. You don't know if you want to go be a doctor, if you want to be a janitor, if you want to be a car mechanic, if you want to go to college, you just want to smoke weed the rest of your days and work at McDonald's. You don't know what you want to do. Why do you think you're confused about that? Think about it. Why are you confused about that? How much information has been thrown in your face or shoved down your throat? A lot of it through social media, but it's not only social media. Why do you think you're confused about that? Stop believing everything you're told. Stop believing everything you're showed. I had to say that, sorry.

Tara Hodgson 20:02

Yeah, no, I like it.

Fatima Bey 20:05

So let's dive let's dive into your fiction because your fiction is what you write is directly related to this conversation. And

Using Fiction To Tell Hard Truths

Fatima Bey 20:13

one of the reasons I had you on . So you write fiction. Uh and fiction is sometimes where uh it's safe to tell stories. And this isn't a new thing. This isn't a teen thing, this hasn't been true for humans throughout human history. Stories are some of the best ways to teach things. They're also a way to say things that you can't really say out loud. It's safe because you know it's just a story. What are what truths are they revealing through your characters in your books that you think are expressing what teens want to say but can't?

Tara Hodgson 20:48

Yeah, my fiction is for sure a way to tackle very difficult topics in uh yeah, a way that you can, you know, read a story, which is entertaining, but also take away a lot that's going on. And I felt like there wasn't enough talk about some of these difficult topics in young adult fiction. So some of the topics that I tackle are suicide, depression, um, sharing intimate photos online and having those photos get out and the effect that that has on somebody's reputation and on their mental health and trafficking and how online tools are now being used to lure, you know, children in by predators, and how you know your parents or you might think that you're safe at home in your room, but you could actually be being a target by someone who is a professional um predator. So yeah, I go to some really heavy places.

Fatima Bey 21:47

And I love that you do. And I I have a guest coming on soon that's gonna die take a deep dive into predator behavior and what we need to look for. Um, because I really want to go into that, but we won't. Yeah. So much to say. It's so, it's so, you know, and and again, to the teenager, listen, I'm not being your parent and say, put the phone down and do something. Yeah, you should, but I know the reality is you're not going to put the phone down. You you can reduce it. You can put the phone down sometimes. That would be helpful. But you need to put barriers up for yourself so that you're blocking the garbage. And I do mean garbage, that they're putting out there and intentionally planting seeds. If I want to ruin your garden, all I have to do is go plant seeds for weeds in your garden. And eventually they will choke out your flowers and your plants. That is what social media and and different forms of technology, all kinds of media, is actually doing to you. They're doing it to you on purpose because I need to break you in order to sell you the solution. Our entire drug and food and drug administration is built off that principle. That's another topic. But I need to cause the problem. I'm mentally causing the problem for you by telling you you're not good enough, by telling you you need to look at live up to a standard you will never ever live up to as a human. So then you come to me for the answer. You get plastic surgery, you're getting uh the booty things, what do they call? The beauty. I forgot just the booty thing. So you get you're getting that, you're getting the eyelashes, you're getting them surgically, you're getting all this stuff. You're pretending, going online, pretending that you're an influencer, like you got all this money, and it's all fake. You're using a half AI and half fake stuff. For what? Because somebody told you that you had to live up to something you'll never live up to. Stop believing everything you see or are shown because they want you to do that.

Tara Hodgson 23:56

So yeah, and my my picture definitely doesn't come from a judgmental place. I think that's really important. It's it's meant to just, you know, bring the awareness because a lot of kids you're not thinking about what is happening behind the scenes, you're not necessarily thinking about the consequences of your actions and how that can ripple down. And so the characters in my stories are very authentic teenagers. They're going through experiences that I've witnessed kids go through. And it's relatable, and then you can just see like what are the potential outcomes of this and what is a different path you could have taken. And you know, what what do you do if you are in this situation?

Fatima Bey 24:37

Right.

Tara Hodgson 24:37

Because it's very possible that kids could be.

Fatima Bey 24:41

And that's that's why I keep saying that, you know, that's why I keep saying we adults keep saying put the phone down, you don't need to be so digitally connected. But I'm also aware that that's not the reality for them. They they grew up differently than we did. So it's easy for us to say that because we didn't grow up so digitally connected like they like they are. And so that's why I want to come from a place of I because for some teens that will work. Do you understand you're being controlled? Because a whole lot of them don't like that. And yeah, but I mean, who does like that?

What Adults Must See And Do

Fatima Bey 25:13

Um let me ask you this: if you could stop the world for one moment and make adults see what today's teens are silently carrying, what would you show them?

Tara Hodgson 25:25

I think I would show the adults just some of the realities of what is happening online because I don't think like I think a lot of adults are burying their heads in the sand and aren't willing to have the conversation. And even some of the feedback I've had on my books is like this was too hard to read from adults, not from kids, from adults, yeah. Um, and for me, if it is hard, then we need to to address it. It's not a matter of ignoring it. Um so when you do choose to give your kids access to the entire world at their fingertips, it is your responsibility as an adult to help them navigate that. And I think that's the part that's missing. Um, for many, not for all, but I think a lot of parents just hand this off and they don't think about the repercussions, and a lot of kids are to because that line of communication isn't open, are going to you know keep this quiet and suffer in silence, which will make the mental health issues worse, the anxiety worse, the depression worse, the prevalence of suicide worse, like all of those things. So, as adults, you need to open your eyes. And if you are choosing to give your kids access to these devices, which I totally understand where parents are coming from when they do that, then it is your responsibility as the adult to help your child navigate that and to talk to them even when it's hard and to not judge them. Um, because I think for teenagers, this is my number one advice as somebody who has worked with teenagers for so long. You do you cannot judge them.

Fatima Bey 27:05

Right.

Tara Hodgson 27:06

Um, because if they come to you and they're talking to you about something that's significant to them or a mistake they made or something they did online or whichever, if you judge them, you will lose them. Um, so adults need to to wake up, I think.

Fatima Bey 27:22

I've had so many people on here saying essentially the the the the same principle anyway, in different ways. We we need to listen to them and not judge them. It's so important. Because if they if we do, they're never gonna come to us again. And if they're not coming to us, guess who they're coming to? The worst part is they're coming to nobody. That means they're internalizing things, which always

Tara Hodgson 27:46

Or they're going to a stranger on the internet. Oh yeah, who's going to listen to them and be there for them and offer to help them. I'm doing quotation marks with my fingers because that is how you make kids vulnerable, right?

Fatima Bey 28:01

It really, if they can't come to you, you're making them vulnerable for someone else. And I would say they're gonna internalize it or they're gonna go to the pimps and ho's down the street. That's where they're gonna get information from. And the parents, I say it like that because no parent wants to hear that, but it's the truth, you know.

Hope, Boundaries, And Trusting Your Gut

Fatima Bey 28:16

Um what advice do you have for teens for the youth of the world today?

Tara Hodgson 28:22

Um, I have a few, I guess. I think even when things feel hard, and this is a message in both of my books too. Like, obviously, life gets really shitty sometimes. Like it's hard. When you're a kid, it feels like those hard moments encompass the rest of your life for all of eternity forever. Um, and that's how it feels like for the characters in my book. But there's always hope at the end of you know, this difficult moment. It isn't the whole world for the rest of time entirely. If you mess up, if things feel bleak and terrible, it's such a small snippet of your life, it will get better. I think that's really important for kids to to know and to trust your gut because I think a lot of kids haven't been taught to trust their instincts and to listen to that little voice in their head that tells them that something isn't right, and that voice is almost always correct. And so I think trust yourself and trust, you know, that feeling in the pit of your stomach, and that little voice that's screaming at you to stop trust it.

Fatima Bey 29:28

I had an I had an episode um maybe a couple months ago now, um, and it was one of my rare solo episodes called You Knew, and I literally talk about that, about how we need to teach our youth, all of us, but especially our youth, trust your gut. The problem is our societies are teaching us from a young age to to ignore it, to listen, to silence it. And every single young person listen to me right now, Tara is exactly right. You have a small still voice in in you that tells you things that you ignore. Stop doing that. Be better than us. When I say us, I mean older adults who talked you out of it. Be better than us and listen. So where can people find you?

Tara Hodgson 30:14

Um, I'm primarily on Instagram. So at Tara Hodgson Author, I I post about you know my books, all kinds of other books, and just mental health stuff. Um, and then at my website at www.tarahogson at uh.ca. Oh, I already forgot my own website. That's embarrassing.

Fatima Bey 30:35

You're not the only, you're not the first person, but you won't be the last. It's okay. Um I and her website will be in the show notes uh or the podcast description wherever you're listening to this right now. So you can always click on it and see um what she has to offer. And I think Tara is very, very, very uh passionate and deep. So I know that her books are too. So I would advise that you go take a look at them. And um, and the advice that she she said for parents, I just ditto times a hundred. Ditto. That's I don't want to give a whole speech, just ditto times a hundred. Well, Tara, thank you so much for coming on. I have really, really enjoyed talking to you. Um, I wish we had another six hours because you and I could go on. But um, but I really appreciate you coming on and um I look forward to talking to you again.

Tara Hodgson 31:33

Yeah, I appreciate it so much. Thank you.

Fatima Bey 31:36

And now for a mind-shifting moment. I

Question Everything And Take Power Back

Fatima Bey 31:43

want to go back to something that we talked about during this episode. Okay. One major point. And both of us said it. And I'm talking to teenagers right now. Adults, you can just sit by and listen. Many of you are falling for and believing what you see and what you hear, what is presented to you. And it bothers me so much because so many of you are so intelligent and beautiful and just awesome. But you're talked out of believing that about yourself because you're believing what's on Instagram, a dating site, what somebody texted yesterday. I want to challenge you to question everything that comes before your face. All media, not just social media, movies, music, posts on Instagram, videos on YouTube, all of it is media and none of it is just there without intention. I really want you to think about that. What's presented to you? What's the real reason you're told that you're not good enough? Is it so you can buy the products that'll make you better? You are a pawn to these big industries. I'm not talking about your parents and the people down the street. I'm talking about the ones who actually control the media you see and hear and experience. I want you to dig deeply and think. Am I just falling for it? Am I just believing everything I'm told, everything I'm showed? I want you to question all of it. Because when you do, you can begin to take your power back. Stop letting them control you. You've been listening to Mind Shift Power Podcast for complete show notes on this episode and to join our global movement, find us at FatimaBay.com. Until next time, always remember there's power in shifting your thinking.